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> they put it into production once it was safer per mile than human drivers The thing is that I can take precautions to increase my safety margin - don't drive

> they put it into production once it was safer per mile than human drivers The thing is that I can take precautions to increase my safety margin - don't drive impaired, drive in good weather conditions, get lots of sleep, don't be aggressive, don't follow closely, etc. etc. etc. I don't have a Tesla, but I imagine there's nothing I can do to voluntarily make it safer. It functions normally until it doesn't.

dancek 8y ago
This is a very good point, and one I hadn't considered. It's common knowledge that most people think they're better than average drivers, so we tend to compensate and believe we're no better than the statistical average driver. But yes indeed, most of us in fact are better than average drivers whenever we're doing our best to drive carefully.
renox 8y ago
In theory, you can take extra precautions sure, but will you take these precautions all the times? Human nature says no: you're in a hurry, you've eaten too much, you have a cold, all these things reduce your ability to drive safely..
zarkov99 8y ago
You can pay attention and keep your hands on the wheel. From what I know all the people who had accidents failed to do this. The challenge seems to be how to overcome the false sense of security drivers get, precisely because the thing works so well most of the time.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  > "You can pay attention and keep your hands on the wheel." In that sense these Level 2 systems are a lot like q-tips. The box says you shouldn't stick them in your ear, but everybody knows that's what you buy them for. If everybody were to follow the directions, the consumer desirability of the product would plummet. Even though you're not supposed to take your hands off the wheel, level 2 systems are often referred to as "hands off". And during a 60 Minutes interview Elon Musk is seen taking his hands off the wheel. Unofficially the point of Level 2 automation is that you can take your hands off the wheel. Officially, your hands must remain on the wheel. The unofficial usecase is what actually gets consumers enthusiastic, but the official usecase is what companies like Tesla cover their ass with. They're having their cake and eating it too.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    The actual point of a Level-2 system (other than as a safety measure, e.g. wrt emergency braking) is that it provides driver assistance for things other than having to pay attention to the road & surroundings at all times - and there are plenty of such things that can meaningfully impact driver's comfort. That's all there is to it. Don't think "Autopilot"; think "Fly-by-wire".
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      Yeah that's nice and all, yet when you have Elon Musk promoting his cars by taking his hands off the steering wheel, it's pretty clear that Tesla's Level 2 system is being sold to consumers as "hands off".
      - zozbot123 8y ago
        Why are people assuming in this thread that Tesla is the only auto maker that's providing Level-2 driver assistance? This couldn't be farther from the truth.
        darkpuma 8y ago
        The topic of this thread is Tesla, specifically Tesla's implementation of automation features. That is why I am talking about Tesla's promotion of their Level 2 system.

dancek 8y ago

This is a very good point, and one I hadn't considered. It's common knowledge that most people think they're better than average drivers, so we tend to compensate and believe we're no better than the statistical average driver. But yes indeed, most of us in fact are better than average drivers whenever we're doing our best to drive carefully.

renox 8y ago

In theory, you can take extra precautions sure, but will you take these precautions all the times? Human nature says no: you're in a hurry, you've eaten too much, you have a cold, all these things reduce your ability to drive safely..

zarkov99 8y ago

You can pay attention and keep your hands on the wheel. From what I know all the people who had accidents failed to do this. The challenge seems to be how to overcome the false sense of security drivers get, precisely because the thing works so well most of the time.

darkpuma 8y ago
> "You can pay attention and keep your hands on the wheel." In that sense these Level 2 systems are a lot like q-tips. The box says you shouldn't stick them in your ear, but everybody knows that's what you buy them for. If everybody were to follow the directions, the consumer desirability of the product would plummet. Even though you're not supposed to take your hands off the wheel, level 2 systems are often referred to as "hands off". And during a 60 Minutes interview Elon Musk is seen taking his hands off the wheel. Unofficially the point of Level 2 automation is that you can take your hands off the wheel. Officially, your hands must remain on the wheel. The unofficial usecase is what actually gets consumers enthusiastic, but the official usecase is what companies like Tesla cover their ass with. They're having their cake and eating it too.
- zozbot123 8y ago
  The actual point of a Level-2 system (other than as a safety measure, e.g. wrt emergency braking) is that it provides driver assistance for things other than having to pay attention to the road & surroundings at all times - and there are plenty of such things that can meaningfully impact driver's comfort. That's all there is to it. Don't think "Autopilot"; think "Fly-by-wire".
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    Yeah that's nice and all, yet when you have Elon Musk promoting his cars by taking his hands off the steering wheel, it's pretty clear that Tesla's Level 2 system is being sold to consumers as "hands off".
    - zozbot123 8y ago
      Why are people assuming in this thread that Tesla is the only auto maker that's providing Level-2 driver assistance? This couldn't be farther from the truth.
      - darkpuma 8y ago
        The topic of this thread is Tesla, specifically Tesla's implementation of automation features. That is why I am talking about Tesla's promotion of their Level 2 system.