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Not a word about the logistics of making such a huge change in such a short amount of time? Surely AOC realizes that money isn't the only obstacle, but also rep

Not a word about the logistics of making such a huge change in such a short amount of time? Surely AOC realizes that money isn't the only obstacle, but also replacing an enormous amount of infrastructure. When you think about how ubiquitous our usage of gasoline, home heating oil, CNG for heating and cooking, and on and on, it quickly becomes clear that while finances would be very difficult, that's dwarfed by the amount of physical change that would be required. Start looking at how all the replacement transportation can be put in place 11 years - either getting all cars off the road, and manufacturing new electric ones; or building other mass transit that can serve everyone (and how long does it take to get a train line built these days?). How are we going to find enough building contractors to install electric heat or heat pumps into every house that uses oil or gas, and to build and install electric stoves? And of course there's the upheaval of jobs for all the people in the current industries, and trying to find a place for them in the new industries. Money's not the bottleneck here, we're more constrained by logistics.

L_Rahman 8y ago
I'll leave the tax plan aside to respond to this. As slow and creaky as the world is, when a government as powerful as the United States aggressively puts forth a vision for the world the systems of the world bend to make it work. Remember also that the vast majority of logistical challenges with climate change aren't developing new products, but handling coordination problems around deploying existing ones. Things that might happen if America decided to commit seriously to a Green New Deal: - automotive roadmap overhaul to 80% electric drivetrain for all deliveries in the United States by 2030 - tectonic shift in land use around the country to higher density zoning, mass transit, HSR - hundreds of billions of dollars of research to public and private institutions to map all the carbon in our system and the most effective ways to remove it But these are all giant changes. Here are simple ones that are straight up applications of government power: - switch all major urban areas to Tokyo style zoning with property taxes tied to mass transit investment - steep cliff on ICE vehicles delivered in the United States hitting some x00% in 2030 - end all fossil fuel subsidies - move all energy supply to a Texas style market Emergent properties of human behavior responding to incentives would take care of the rest.
- CWuestefeld 8y ago
  Remember also that the vast majority of logistical challenges with climate change aren't developing new products, but handling coordination problems around deploying existing ones. Yes, that was exactly my point. There simply aren't enough people making electric cars, heat pumps, and all those other new products, to eliminate fossil fuel dependence by 2030, which was what AOC was advocating. Diverting enough resources would be disastrous to other industries, and then once we've made the huge investment to build all that, we suddenly don't need the capacity once we hit the goal. It's economic suicide. Emergent properties of human behavior responding to incentives would take care of the rest. You're outlining programs that would push us in the right direction, which is good. These are not things which will eliminate fossil fuel dependence by 2030, which is what AOC was shooting for, and which I'm criticizing.
tracker1 8y ago
That doesn't even account for locations where most electricity comes from coal, or fossil generation. I think nuclear gets a bad rep for the most part, and don't mind it... that said some hate it. Beyond this, is expanding the power needs for areas that may not have capacity meaning more infrastructure. Replacing main breakers and panels...

L_Rahman 8y ago

I'll leave the tax plan aside to respond to this. As slow and creaky as the world is, when a government as powerful as the United States aggressively puts forth a vision for the world the systems of the world bend to make it work. Remember also that the vast majority of logistical challenges with climate change aren't developing new products, but handling coordination problems around deploying existing ones. Things that might happen if America decided to commit seriously to a Green New Deal: - automotive roadmap overhaul to 80% electric drivetrain for all deliveries in the United States by 2030 - tectonic shift in land use around the country to higher density zoning, mass transit, HSR - hundreds of billions of dollars of research to public and private institutions to map all the carbon in our system and the most effective ways to remove it But these are all giant changes. Here are simple ones that are straight up applications of government power: - switch all major urban areas to Tokyo style zoning with property taxes tied to mass transit investment - steep cliff on ICE vehicles delivered in the United States hitting some x00% in 2030 - end all fossil fuel subsidies - move all energy supply to a Texas style market Emergent properties of human behavior responding to incentives would take care of the rest.

CWuestefeld 8y ago
Remember also that the vast majority of logistical challenges with climate change aren't developing new products, but handling coordination problems around deploying existing ones. Yes, that was exactly my point. There simply aren't enough people making electric cars, heat pumps, and all those other new products, to eliminate fossil fuel dependence by 2030, which was what AOC was advocating. Diverting enough resources would be disastrous to other industries, and then once we've made the huge investment to build all that, we suddenly don't need the capacity once we hit the goal. It's economic suicide. Emergent properties of human behavior responding to incentives would take care of the rest. You're outlining programs that would push us in the right direction, which is good. These are not things which will eliminate fossil fuel dependence by 2030, which is what AOC was shooting for, and which I'm criticizing.

tracker1 8y ago

That doesn't even account for locations where most electricity comes from coal, or fossil generation. I think nuclear gets a bad rep for the most part, and don't mind it... that said some hate it. Beyond this, is expanding the power needs for areas that may not have capacity meaning more infrastructure. Replacing main breakers and panels...