4 ms·

> Office workers, sleepy truckers, hospital nurses on 10-hour shifts, cabbies, students, cops? They're not the only ones who benefit from a cup, or a few, Harkl

by jly 8y ago

> Office workers, sleepy truckers, hospital nurses on 10-hour shifts, cabbies, students, cops? They're not the only ones who benefit from a cup, or a few, Harkless pointed out. Don't get me wrong, I love coffee. However, it may be more accurate to say that all of these people (including the athletes) are using caffeine to medicate their chronic sleep deprivation, which may be at least partly caused in the first place by caffeine consumption. NBA basketball players are in a tough position because they often need to peak between approx. 7-10pm (local time), and they frequently travel between 4 time zones. Most individuals would be naturally winding down alertness during those hours, even with good sleep patterns.

chiefalchemist 8y ago
You make a good point. Sure, caffeine provides a quick, easy and relatively safe (and legal) boost. But ultimately, you have to balance that short term solution with a slightly longer term view of sleep quality and other recovery efforts. For example, what do they eat / drink as soon as the game is over to optimize recovery (so caffeine is less necessary the following night). Put another way, you can alert the body and the mind but that doesn't necessarily lead to a high quality performance. Feel better is not the same as scoring more points.
- ergothus 8y ago
  (gross simplification below) I've done a little research on caffeine, and as far as wakefulness goes (not touching the other effects here), it works by binding to the same protein receptors the body uses to decide if it is tired. Body unable to get signals that should trigger a feeling of tiredness == Body not conscious of being tired. BUT the body responds by producing more of those receptors, making it more likely that it will start getting signals of fatigue even when the signaling proteins are at a low concentration. Thus, regular caffeine takers will find they need caffeine to feel a "normal" level of tired. It takes roughly 2 weeks without caffeine for a regular caffeine taker to achieve a no-caffeine level of such receptors. Now, how much of the above is pseudo-science? Great question. FWIW, when I did the research the sources seemed credible enough (naming actual proteins, referring to actual studies, not just giving me animated drawings and hand-waving details) and it at least correlates with my anecdotal data - I don't use caffeinated drinks or supplements as a normal rule but do use them for special events (unusually late night/early morning) and have found the wakefulness effects to be effective unless I slip up and get too lax in my definition of "unusual". I also never thought caffeine was a big deal ( I never knew withdrawal symptoms, for example ) until I stopped using it as a general rule and my sleep improved notably. That said, my sleep quality is generally terrible so it doesn't take much to improve it.
  - chiefalchemist 8y ago
    Did you notice any other side effects from dropping caffeine? For example, weight loss (or at least less likely to gain)? That is, I've read that stress increases cortisol. I could think (too much) caffeine can have similar effect. I ask because I tend to feel that less caffeine makes me feel "lighter" (so to speak). But I haven't tracked it closely. It's more a general pattern that I think I'm seeing, but perhaps it's wishful thinking plus some bias?
    - ergothus 8y ago
      Not that I recall, but I was surprised at the notable effects overall. Caffeine is so prevalent and people so knee-jerk defensive of it that we don't notice the powerful effects (be they good or bad). Unfortunately, it's been several years and I don't recall any specific reactions other than the sleep and that overall impression.
- ethbro 8y ago
  From the article, "'The half-life of caffeine is five to seven hours,' says Brian St. Pierre, director of performance nutrition at Precision Nutrition." So if they drink some 30 minutes before a ~2.5 hr game, they've got 3 hours post-game. Which seems reasonable: an hour for interviews / meetings, some travel, settling in, then normal sleep. At the NBA level, they're definitely not deficient on post-game recovery and nutrients either.
  - Amezarak 8y ago
    A half life of six hours means that half the amount of caffeine is still in their body, so it would be affecting sleep six hours later.
notable_user 8y ago
Most people probably shouldn’t have coffee after 4PM.
sov 8y ago
I don't think this is the case. I played on a B/C-tier Overwatch team as the main DPS (mostly Tracer) for several months and I can tell you there is a stark difference in snap-reflex between non-caffeinated and caffeinated states, regardless of sleep amount. There were many other things I did to improve my reflexes and rote mechanical skill in general, but none made as much an obvious difference as caffeine.
- dmoy 8y ago
  I did competitive fencing and we would chug caffeine during tournaments. Almost moreso for the metabolism boost though. Because that latter effect you can build a huge tolerance for, you had to stay off of caffeine for everything but tournaments.
- thatoneuser 8y ago
  Caffeine is obviously s performance enhancing drug. The ncaa has limits to how much caffeine you can have in you while performing, I’m sure other entities do as well.
  - dmoy 8y ago
    You need to drink a lot of caffeine (or pills I suppose) to go over the limits (unless they're a lot lower now?). We're talking like on the order of a gallon of coffee or something.
naner 8y ago
It is a moderate stimulant, right? So it should provide a small boost even if you're not sleep deprived.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
hawaiianbrah 8y ago
4 time zones... ?
- nervousvarun 8y ago
  It's a U.S. sport no? The U.S. has 6 time zones, but Hawaii/Alaska don't have NBA teams: Relevant time zones are Pacific, Mountain, Central, and Eastern.

by jly 8y ago

chiefalchemist 8y ago

You make a good point. Sure, caffeine provides a quick, easy and relatively safe (and legal) boost. But ultimately, you have to balance that short term solution with a slightly longer term view of sleep quality and other recovery efforts. For example, what do they eat / drink as soon as the game is over to optimize recovery (so caffeine is less necessary the following night). Put another way, you can alert the body and the mind but that doesn't necessarily lead to a high quality performance. Feel better is not the same as scoring more points.

ergothus 8y ago
(gross simplification below) I've done a little research on caffeine, and as far as wakefulness goes (not touching the other effects here), it works by binding to the same protein receptors the body uses to decide if it is tired. Body unable to get signals that should trigger a feeling of tiredness == Body not conscious of being tired. BUT the body responds by producing more of those receptors, making it more likely that it will start getting signals of fatigue even when the signaling proteins are at a low concentration. Thus, regular caffeine takers will find they need caffeine to feel a "normal" level of tired. It takes roughly 2 weeks without caffeine for a regular caffeine taker to achieve a no-caffeine level of such receptors. Now, how much of the above is pseudo-science? Great question. FWIW, when I did the research the sources seemed credible enough (naming actual proteins, referring to actual studies, not just giving me animated drawings and hand-waving details) and it at least correlates with my anecdotal data - I don't use caffeinated drinks or supplements as a normal rule but do use them for special events (unusually late night/early morning) and have found the wakefulness effects to be effective unless I slip up and get too lax in my definition of "unusual". I also never thought caffeine was a big deal ( I never knew withdrawal symptoms, for example ) until I stopped using it as a general rule and my sleep improved notably. That said, my sleep quality is generally terrible so it doesn't take much to improve it.
- chiefalchemist 8y ago
  Did you notice any other side effects from dropping caffeine? For example, weight loss (or at least less likely to gain)? That is, I've read that stress increases cortisol. I could think (too much) caffeine can have similar effect. I ask because I tend to feel that less caffeine makes me feel "lighter" (so to speak). But I haven't tracked it closely. It's more a general pattern that I think I'm seeing, but perhaps it's wishful thinking plus some bias?
  - ergothus 8y ago
    Not that I recall, but I was surprised at the notable effects overall. Caffeine is so prevalent and people so knee-jerk defensive of it that we don't notice the powerful effects (be they good or bad). Unfortunately, it's been several years and I don't recall any specific reactions other than the sleep and that overall impression.
ethbro 8y ago
From the article, "'The half-life of caffeine is five to seven hours,' says Brian St. Pierre, director of performance nutrition at Precision Nutrition." So if they drink some 30 minutes before a ~2.5 hr game, they've got 3 hours post-game. Which seems reasonable: an hour for interviews / meetings, some travel, settling in, then normal sleep. At the NBA level, they're definitely not deficient on post-game recovery and nutrients either.
- Amezarak 8y ago
  A half life of six hours means that half the amount of caffeine is still in their body, so it would be affecting sleep six hours later.

notable_user 8y ago

Most people probably shouldn’t have coffee after 4PM.

sov 8y ago

I don't think this is the case. I played on a B/C-tier Overwatch team as the main DPS (mostly Tracer) for several months and I can tell you there is a stark difference in snap-reflex between non-caffeinated and caffeinated states, regardless of sleep amount. There were many other things I did to improve my reflexes and rote mechanical skill in general, but none made as much an obvious difference as caffeine.

dmoy 8y ago
I did competitive fencing and we would chug caffeine during tournaments. Almost moreso for the metabolism boost though. Because that latter effect you can build a huge tolerance for, you had to stay off of caffeine for everything but tournaments.
thatoneuser 8y ago
Caffeine is obviously s performance enhancing drug. The ncaa has limits to how much caffeine you can have in you while performing, I’m sure other entities do as well.
- dmoy 8y ago
  You need to drink a lot of caffeine (or pills I suppose) to go over the limits (unless they're a lot lower now?). We're talking like on the order of a gallon of coffee or something.

naner 8y ago

It is a moderate stimulant, right? So it should provide a small boost even if you're not sleep deprived.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

hawaiianbrah 8y ago

4 time zones... ?

nervousvarun 8y ago
It's a U.S. sport no? The U.S. has 6 time zones, but Hawaii/Alaska don't have NBA teams: Relevant time zones are Pacific, Mountain, Central, and Eastern.