6 ms·

What is especially frustrating that many sites don’t allow Mailinator and other similar ‘one-time’ email systems to be used for registering an account. No way I

by rixrax 8y ago

What is especially frustrating that many sites don’t allow Mailinator and other similar ‘one-time’ email systems to be used for registering an account. No way I am going to give you my email address up front before seeing the product. Now the solution is of course to have a separate gmail account to register. Most sites still allow user+site@gmail.com address syntax so that I can sometimes see who are leaking where. I would be curious to know if there is some credible A/B testing showing that for a relatively unknown new product blocking Mailinators and it’s kin somehow results as a better conversion?

imhoguy 8y ago
There is a lot of temporary email services constantly popping into the Internet every month. Some of them are open-sourced so one can make own quick disposable email or forwarding service with cheap domain. "Resistance Is Futile" - no way any exclusion list can keep up to cover them.
- em-bee 8y ago
  every time i do a search i find services that require registration or even payment, and rarely ever anything that supports making up an email address on the spot the way mailinator does.
distant_hat 8y ago
Given how well known user+site@gmail.com is wouldn't many sites simply strip the +... part before selling the email data?
- matte_black 8y ago
  Yes, this is part of standard data cleaning practices. You always remove whatever custom formats a provider allows to get the raw minimum email address (this is only for export, you still send official communication with a user to their original specified address).
  - nybble41 8y ago
    There's a simple solution for that: always include a label as part of your address, and treat any mail that doesn't include one as spam.
    - matte_black 8y ago
      Not every service even allows you to have a label in your email address. So what then?
      - nybble41 8y ago
        Get them to fix their broken systems? The concept of a "label" exists only in the user agent. To everyone else the '+' character is just part of the account identifier, and a perfectly valid element of any e-mail address. The entire portion before the '@' sign is potentially significant. If someone hands you an address abc+def@example.com, there is no guarantee whatsoever that mail sent to abc@example.com will end up in the same individual's inbox—that could be a completely unrelated account. On the e-mail provider's side, one way to work around such broken systems would be to let users generate random, opaque aliases which do not contain their primary e-mail username but route to the same account, with a predetermined label applied on receipt. These would look just like ordinary addresses and there would be no way for services to strip out the identifying elements.
- ghostly_s 8y ago
  Why would they care enough to do so?
  - devocracy 8y ago
    If I get a marked as spam notification, I'll strip anything after the '+' (and really any special characters that distract from the raw email address) to make sure I never send an email to the address again.
- jzl 8y ago
  There is one surprisingly good feature in yahoo mail that I wish google would provide: the ability (requirement, actually) to create a custom prefix for disposable email addresses. Just pick something completely unrelated to your real username. You can only create it once and it is forever your prefix, so don't mess up this step! Also, unlike gmail, you have to register a suffix when you want a new address in the form of prefix-suffix@yahoo.com. But this has the added benefit that you can delete any of the suffixes from the list, thereby stopping incoming messages from that address. You can have up to 500 active suffixes. Finally, since the format uses a dash rather than +, I have never once had a disposable yahoo address rejected. Not sure if that made any sense, but here's a link to the docs: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN28338.html https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN28338.html
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
chrisweekly 8y ago
Tangent: I've been using a nispam@inboxalias.com for years, and it's only recently that I've encountered validation rejections. (Ironically, both times that happened, the form in question did allow +foo@gmail.com.)
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Yup. It's frustrating. One benefit of switching to mail on my own domain (powered by FastMail at the moment) is that instead of username@mydomain, I can also use antispamlabel@username.mydomain. Which is hopefully less common and too dangerous to automatically filter out in "data cleaning".
- freedomben 8y ago
  Man I so want to do that, but the pricing just seems outrageous at minimum $3/user/month, standard $5/user/month. I've been wanting to hack together some scripts to use a serverless cloud provider like SES. Since I rarely check my email and almost never send any, it's crazy to pay such a high monthly fee.
  - Faark 8y ago
    I use mailgun to forward mails incoming on my domain to my usual web mail accounts. Free tier is more than enough, since i don't expect hundreds of mails per day. Sending is a bit painful, though. Also sometimes mails fail to be forwarded and get stuck for a while... annoying when you're waiting for some kind of link / code.
    - freedomben 8y ago
      Interesting, thanks for the tip!
    - manigandham 8y ago
      If you get a lot of spam and it's all forwarded than some providers like Gmail will treat your email address as the source of the spam rather than the original sender.
  - jlpicard 8y ago
    It really depends on how you value your time. Assuming $36 per year, how long would it take you to 'hack' together this solution? An hour? What would you charge someone per-hour to do some work? It seems a lot when you compare it to a seemingly free email address, but Fastmail & others are well worth the upfront cost.
manigandham 8y ago
Your email is public, there's no gain in keeping it secret. For further reading: https://www.troyhunt.com/im-sorry-but-your-email-address-is-not/ https://www.troyhunt.com/im-sorry-but-your-email-address-is-...
- navs 8y ago
  Yes but that doesn't mean I want my inbox receiving emails a year later from a service I used for 10 minutes. I generally trial services (that don't contain any personal information) with a separate mailinator email. If I feel like this is something I'm going to be using more of, I'll do a proper registration with my actual name and email.
bostik 8y ago
> I would be curious to know if there is some credible A/B testing showing that for a relatively unknown new product blocking Mailinators and it’s kin somehow results as a better conversion? Well, there's always this: https://articles.uie.com/three_hund_million_button/ https://articles.uie.com/three_hund_million_button/ -- trigger warning: that page has annoying delayed-by-few-seconds modal popup that begs you to subscribe and, incidentally, hand out your email address; the irony must have been lost on their marketing folks. Unless your business is REQUIRED[×] to have user details on file, putting any kind of friction on the user's action path is equal to voluntarily giving up sales. No, I don't want yet another account on your shitty website, no matter what it sells to me. If I end up coming back often enough, then I may, voluntarily, create an account. But if your site requires to create one up front, I'm incentivised to take my business somewhere else. The worst offenders try to do email domain TLD matching against country of residence. I've seen it only twice, but it's such a user-hostile pattern that it has seared itself to my memory (while mercifully having relieved me of the memory of where I ran into it). ×: cough gambling, financial services, insurance, etc.

by rixrax 8y ago

imhoguy 8y ago

There is a lot of temporary email services constantly popping into the Internet every month. Some of them are open-sourced so one can make own quick disposable email or forwarding service with cheap domain. "Resistance Is Futile" - no way any exclusion list can keep up to cover them.

em-bee 8y ago
every time i do a search i find services that require registration or even payment, and rarely ever anything that supports making up an email address on the spot the way mailinator does.

distant_hat 8y ago

Given how well known user+site@gmail.com is wouldn't many sites simply strip the +... part before selling the email data?

matte_black 8y ago
Yes, this is part of standard data cleaning practices. You always remove whatever custom formats a provider allows to get the raw minimum email address (this is only for export, you still send official communication with a user to their original specified address).
- nybble41 8y ago
  There's a simple solution for that: always include a label as part of your address, and treat any mail that doesn't include one as spam.
  - matte_black 8y ago
    Not every service even allows you to have a label in your email address. So what then?
    - nybble41 8y ago
      Get them to fix their broken systems? The concept of a "label" exists only in the user agent. To everyone else the '+' character is just part of the account identifier, and a perfectly valid element of any e-mail address. The entire portion before the '@' sign is potentially significant. If someone hands you an address abc+def@example.com, there is no guarantee whatsoever that mail sent to abc@example.com will end up in the same individual's inbox—that could be a completely unrelated account. On the e-mail provider's side, one way to work around such broken systems would be to let users generate random, opaque aliases which do not contain their primary e-mail username but route to the same account, with a predetermined label applied on receipt. These would look just like ordinary addresses and there would be no way for services to strip out the identifying elements.
ghostly_s 8y ago
Why would they care enough to do so?
- devocracy 8y ago
  If I get a marked as spam notification, I'll strip anything after the '+' (and really any special characters that distract from the raw email address) to make sure I never send an email to the address again.
jzl 8y ago
There is one surprisingly good feature in yahoo mail that I wish google would provide: the ability (requirement, actually) to create a custom prefix for disposable email addresses. Just pick something completely unrelated to your real username. You can only create it once and it is forever your prefix, so don't mess up this step! Also, unlike gmail, you have to register a suffix when you want a new address in the form of prefix-suffix@yahoo.com. But this has the added benefit that you can delete any of the suffixes from the list, thereby stopping incoming messages from that address. You can have up to 500 active suffixes. Finally, since the format uses a dash rather than +, I have never once had a disposable yahoo address rejected. Not sure if that made any sense, but here's a link to the docs: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN28338.html https://help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN28338.html
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

chrisweekly 8y ago

Tangent: I've been using a nispam@inboxalias.com for years, and it's only recently that I've encountered validation rejections. (Ironically, both times that happened, the form in question did allow +foo@gmail.com.)

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Yup. It's frustrating. One benefit of switching to mail on my own domain (powered by FastMail at the moment) is that instead of username@mydomain, I can also use antispamlabel@username.mydomain. Which is hopefully less common and too dangerous to automatically filter out in "data cleaning".

freedomben 8y ago
Man I so want to do that, but the pricing just seems outrageous at minimum $3/user/month, standard $5/user/month. I've been wanting to hack together some scripts to use a serverless cloud provider like SES. Since I rarely check my email and almost never send any, it's crazy to pay such a high monthly fee.
- Faark 8y ago
  I use mailgun to forward mails incoming on my domain to my usual web mail accounts. Free tier is more than enough, since i don't expect hundreds of mails per day. Sending is a bit painful, though. Also sometimes mails fail to be forwarded and get stuck for a while... annoying when you're waiting for some kind of link / code.
  - freedomben 8y ago
    Interesting, thanks for the tip!
  - manigandham 8y ago
    If you get a lot of spam and it's all forwarded than some providers like Gmail will treat your email address as the source of the spam rather than the original sender.
- jlpicard 8y ago
  It really depends on how you value your time. Assuming $36 per year, how long would it take you to 'hack' together this solution? An hour? What would you charge someone per-hour to do some work? It seems a lot when you compare it to a seemingly free email address, but Fastmail & others are well worth the upfront cost.

manigandham 8y ago

Your email is public, there's no gain in keeping it secret. For further reading: https://www.troyhunt.com/im-sorry-but-your-email-address-is-not/ https://www.troyhunt.com/im-sorry-but-your-email-address-is-...

navs 8y ago
Yes but that doesn't mean I want my inbox receiving emails a year later from a service I used for 10 minutes. I generally trial services (that don't contain any personal information) with a separate mailinator email. If I feel like this is something I'm going to be using more of, I'll do a proper registration with my actual name and email.

bostik 8y ago

> I would be curious to know if there is some credible A/B testing showing that for a relatively unknown new product blocking Mailinators and it’s kin somehow results as a better conversion? Well, there's always this: https://articles.uie.com/three_hund_million_button/ https://articles.uie.com/three_hund_million_button/ -- trigger warning: that page has annoying delayed-by-few-seconds modal popup that begs you to subscribe and, incidentally, hand out your email address; the irony must have been lost on their marketing folks. Unless your business is REQUIRED[×] to have user details on file, putting any kind of friction on the user's action path is equal to voluntarily giving up sales. No, I don't want yet another account on your shitty website, no matter what it sells to me. If I end up coming back often enough, then I may, voluntarily, create an account. But if your site requires to create one up front, I'm incentivised to take my business somewhere else. The worst offenders try to do email domain TLD matching against country of residence. I've seen it only twice, but it's such a user-hostile pattern that it has seared itself to my memory (while mercifully having relieved me of the memory of where I ran into it). ×: cough gambling, financial services, insurance, etc.