9 ms·

Some HN users motivation for side projects is to impress other HN users, "make something really impressive". Others are trying to make money and this is how Kr

by watty 16y ago

Some HN users motivation for side projects is to impress other HN users, "make something really impressive". Others are trying to make money and this is how Kreci succeeded (a la Notch).

jacquesm 16y ago
Let me reword that to 'useful' instead of impressive.
- maxklein 16y ago
  Who defines what is 'useful'? I have a cousin, he sits at home all day, watching TV. When he buys apps, he does not want or care for things like 'currency bot'. Why would he care about that, he never needs to convert currency. But if he sees something like the x-ray stuff, he'd be quite entertained by it. For him, it's much more useful than a VIM clone for android. Your definition of useful is not the same as most of the worlds definition.
  - CrazedGeek 16y ago
    use·ful 1. being of use or service; serving some purpose; advantageous, helpful, or of good effect: a useful member of society. 2. of practical use, as for doing work; producing material results; supplying common needs: the useful arts; useful work. Seems to me that his definition is spot on.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      The point maxklein was making is that these apps are useful to someone, otherwise, kreci wouldn't be making money from them. Just because we don't deem them useful here doesn't mean there aren't people who do find them useful.
      - exit 16y ago
        > ... these apps are useful to someone, otherwise, kreci wouldn't be making money from them. this logic only works out if you approach things myopically. do you think drug dealers provide a useful commodity? they're certainly making a lot of money. the apps described take advantage of some neurological disposition to gimmicks / novelty - it's not a given that the world is a better place because of them.
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        I guess you're calling capitalism myopic. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that's the framework we've set up. (And yes, I do think drug dealers provide value. It's a service, people want it. In any other context, we'd be writing articles about how a perceptive entrepreneur rose up from a simple upbringing to rolling in cash, it's just that we look down upon the product.) There's a pretty decent sibling of mine who's dead. You may want to turn showdead on temporarily.
        exit 16y ago
        yes, capitalism is myopic and you can justify many myopic conclusions by limiting yourself to its framework. > ... it's just that we look down upon the product. that's an amusing misdirection. it's actually more about the lives ruined and suffering experienced by way of the product. > What is your definition of wealth? Paul Graham says, and I tend to agree with him, that wealth is "things people want". If people want these apps (or drugs), then the apps (and drugs) create wealth. wealth is control over other people. having lots of money in a capitalist system is a proxy for being able to control lots of other people in this system. taking advantage of neurological hooks (chemical in the case of drugs, or sensual in the case of advertising / apps / etc) is certainly one way to gain controller over others (by the proxy of money). i suppose if your concerns are entirely contained within the bounds of playing that game (very much the case for many entrepreneurial types) there's no motivation to challenge its definition of "value".
        steveklabnik 16y ago
  - andreyf 16y ago
    You can't be serious. Just because people are willing to pay money for it doesn't mean it's worth your time. There's nothing wrong with making money on the side with a couple of apps like this, but just as AIDS or cancer research is more "useful" than penis pills or breast enhancement surgery regardless of profitability, there are many ways for mobile developers to "push the state of the art" without making more fake cracked screen apps.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      > Just because people are willing to pay money for it doesn't mean it's worth your time. By definition, if someone is willing to pay money for something, it's worth _their_ time, which is the whole point of making products. We preach "Making something that a customer finds valuable. MVP and iterate. Get lots of feedback to build something the customer wants." So kreci builds something people want. > ust as AIDS or cancer research is more "useful" than penis pills or breast enhancement surgery regardless of profitability This is where the main discrepancy comes in. You guys are talking about two different things: 'value' within a capitalist framework and 'nobility' within your particular moral one. Neither one is necessarily 'better', but that's the core difference.
      - Yzupnick 16y ago
        > This is where the main discrepancy comes in. You guys are talking about two different things: 'value' within a capitalist framework and 'nobility' within your particular moral one. Neither one is necessarily 'better', but that's the core difference. I think this is something that is confused all the time, even by people who realize the distinction. It is something I (and I suspect others) find hard to keep track of without actively thinking about it.
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        Absolutely. I think it's a common trap that we all fall into; I know that I do, for sure. We assume that something doesn't have any value unless it solves a hard problem. In reality, there's a ton of low-hanging fruit out there just waiting to be exploited. As the web matures, I think we'll look back and realize that this is an era where the problem space looks like a tree: a trunk has sprung up of problems that we're solving, and then we're going to the highest levels of difficulty, branching out. Eventually, more will start doing what some people (like kreci) are just starting to do: working on easier problems. There's a whole world out there of things that we can easily be doing to help people with their day. They may not be 'noble', but even fart apps have their place in people's lives. Numerous fortunes have been made from pornography, professional wrestling, and soap operas. We'd do well to remember that.
- parfe 16y ago
  I've never seen you comment on someone else's success without coming across as bitter.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    > I've never seen you comment on someone else's success without coming across as bitter. Is that so? Wow. References please, and don't pull your punches. Then, for an encore go search for those cases where I've done my utmost to get HN'ers stuff launched and helped them with goods, time, funds, traffic and whatever else I've got to give. What would you rather have, my unvarnished opinion or do you think it would be helpful if I fawned over what I essentially perceive to be a bunch of fart apps?
    - parfe 16y ago
      I think the fact that my post dipped as low as -4 before bouncing back up to +1 in a 24 hour period shows I'm not the only one who holds such an opinion. I see no need to go trawling through your posting history.
cma 16y ago
I don't think those are the only two possible motivations. "Nor could he ever wean himself from the notion, which is perhaps especially an American notion, that success and virtue are the same thing."

by watty 16y ago

Some HN users motivation for side projects is to impress other HN users, "make something really impressive". Others are trying to make money and this is how Kreci succeeded (a la Notch).

jacquesm 16y ago

Let me reword that to 'useful' instead of impressive.

maxklein 16y ago
Who defines what is 'useful'? I have a cousin, he sits at home all day, watching TV. When he buys apps, he does not want or care for things like 'currency bot'. Why would he care about that, he never needs to convert currency. But if he sees something like the x-ray stuff, he'd be quite entertained by it. For him, it's much more useful than a VIM clone for android. Your definition of useful is not the same as most of the worlds definition.
- CrazedGeek 16y ago
  use·ful 1. being of use or service; serving some purpose; advantageous, helpful, or of good effect: a useful member of society. 2. of practical use, as for doing work; producing material results; supplying common needs: the useful arts; useful work. Seems to me that his definition is spot on.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    The point maxklein was making is that these apps are useful to someone, otherwise, kreci wouldn't be making money from them. Just because we don't deem them useful here doesn't mean there aren't people who do find them useful.
    - exit 16y ago
      > ... these apps are useful to someone, otherwise, kreci wouldn't be making money from them. this logic only works out if you approach things myopically. do you think drug dealers provide a useful commodity? they're certainly making a lot of money. the apps described take advantage of some neurological disposition to gimmicks / novelty - it's not a given that the world is a better place because of them.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        I guess you're calling capitalism myopic. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that's the framework we've set up. (And yes, I do think drug dealers provide value. It's a service, people want it. In any other context, we'd be writing articles about how a perceptive entrepreneur rose up from a simple upbringing to rolling in cash, it's just that we look down upon the product.) There's a pretty decent sibling of mine who's dead. You may want to turn showdead on temporarily.
        exit 16y ago
        yes, capitalism is myopic and you can justify many myopic conclusions by limiting yourself to its framework. > ... it's just that we look down upon the product. that's an amusing misdirection. it's actually more about the lives ruined and suffering experienced by way of the product. > What is your definition of wealth? Paul Graham says, and I tend to agree with him, that wealth is "things people want". If people want these apps (or drugs), then the apps (and drugs) create wealth. wealth is control over other people. having lots of money in a capitalist system is a proxy for being able to control lots of other people in this system. taking advantage of neurological hooks (chemical in the case of drugs, or sensual in the case of advertising / apps / etc) is certainly one way to gain controller over others (by the proxy of money). i suppose if your concerns are entirely contained within the bounds of playing that game (very much the case for many entrepreneurial types) there's no motivation to challenge its definition of "value".
        steveklabnik 16y ago
- andreyf 16y ago
  You can't be serious. Just because people are willing to pay money for it doesn't mean it's worth your time. There's nothing wrong with making money on the side with a couple of apps like this, but just as AIDS or cancer research is more "useful" than penis pills or breast enhancement surgery regardless of profitability, there are many ways for mobile developers to "push the state of the art" without making more fake cracked screen apps.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    > Just because people are willing to pay money for it doesn't mean it's worth your time. By definition, if someone is willing to pay money for something, it's worth _their_ time, which is the whole point of making products. We preach "Making something that a customer finds valuable. MVP and iterate. Get lots of feedback to build something the customer wants." So kreci builds something people want. > ust as AIDS or cancer research is more "useful" than penis pills or breast enhancement surgery regardless of profitability This is where the main discrepancy comes in. You guys are talking about two different things: 'value' within a capitalist framework and 'nobility' within your particular moral one. Neither one is necessarily 'better', but that's the core difference.
    - Yzupnick 16y ago
      > This is where the main discrepancy comes in. You guys are talking about two different things: 'value' within a capitalist framework and 'nobility' within your particular moral one. Neither one is necessarily 'better', but that's the core difference. I think this is something that is confused all the time, even by people who realize the distinction. It is something I (and I suspect others) find hard to keep track of without actively thinking about it.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        Absolutely. I think it's a common trap that we all fall into; I know that I do, for sure. We assume that something doesn't have any value unless it solves a hard problem. In reality, there's a ton of low-hanging fruit out there just waiting to be exploited. As the web matures, I think we'll look back and realize that this is an era where the problem space looks like a tree: a trunk has sprung up of problems that we're solving, and then we're going to the highest levels of difficulty, branching out. Eventually, more will start doing what some people (like kreci) are just starting to do: working on easier problems. There's a whole world out there of things that we can easily be doing to help people with their day. They may not be 'noble', but even fart apps have their place in people's lives. Numerous fortunes have been made from pornography, professional wrestling, and soap operas. We'd do well to remember that.
parfe 16y ago
I've never seen you comment on someone else's success without coming across as bitter.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  > I've never seen you comment on someone else's success without coming across as bitter. Is that so? Wow. References please, and don't pull your punches. Then, for an encore go search for those cases where I've done my utmost to get HN'ers stuff launched and helped them with goods, time, funds, traffic and whatever else I've got to give. What would you rather have, my unvarnished opinion or do you think it would be helpful if I fawned over what I essentially perceive to be a bunch of fart apps?
  - parfe 16y ago
    I think the fact that my post dipped as low as -4 before bouncing back up to +1 in a 24 hour period shows I'm not the only one who holds such an opinion. I see no need to go trawling through your posting history.

cma 16y ago

I don't think those are the only two possible motivations. "Nor could he ever wean himself from the notion, which is perhaps especially an American notion, that success and virtue are the same thing."