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This reminds me of having a wealth manager that is broker/dealer. They recommend investments, but those investments don't have to be the best ones the advisor k

This reminds me of having a wealth manager that is broker/dealer. They recommend investments, but those investments don't have to be the best ones the advisor knows of for your situation. They merely need to be suitable. So while you may not be paying management fees for advisory services, the broker is compensated by commission, so it's basically advertising dressed up as advice.

jasode 8y ago
>This reminds me of having a wealth manager that is broker/dealer. [...], so it's basically advertising dressed up as advice. And your comment reminds me of one of my other examples of the "buyers buying ads": It isn't just small subscription amounts where people buy the ads in magazines; sometimes people will pay $12000 to be bombarded with ads. Who are those people and why would they do this?!? The example is the attendees to the Milken Institute conferences[0]. The ticket price is ~$12000 and it allows attendees to listen to "ad presentations" from fund managers. (Example.[1]) Yes, it's formally called a "discussion panel" but everybody knows that the fund managers on the stage are really advertising their firms' investing expertise without the vulgarity of explicitly labeling it "ads". If one only has an uncompromising view that _all_ ads are evil, it will not make any sense why pension fund custodians would pay thousands to view ads. On the other hand, if there's wiggle room for "relevant ads", the payment of $12k for ad presentations is perfectly rational. [0] https://www.milkeninstitute.org/events/conferences/ https://www.milkeninstitute.org/events/conferences/ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpFOPHUhRBg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpFOPHUhRBg
- mikeash 8y ago
  Do the attendees pay for their own tickets, or are they able to get their fund to pay? If the latter, it just tells us that the fringe benefits of the conference are worth more than zero, and nothing about the benefits of ads.
  - jasode 8y ago
    >Do the attendees pay for their own tickets, or are they able to get their fund to pay? There's a mixture of both. The pension officer for institutions like California Retirement System will have his/her ticket paid but other folks that run their own small fund will pay their own way. The attendees all have the problem of "where do I put my institution's money?" and they go to the conference to listen to various presentations to be persuaded. Yes, there are also chances for networking and "meet & greet" but the event is largely a marketplace hub for "sellers" (funds) and "buyers" (institutions). The sellers (e.g. the hedge funds and the billionaire managers that appear on the stage) sponsor the show which in effect also funds Milken's 501c charity institution.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  Presentations/conferences in general serve as an excuse to network and have off the record conversations. Plus people don’t necessarily pay out of their own pocket.
- AJ007 8y ago
  From my own personal experience I’ve found that the more expensive a full conference pass is, the more the sessions are just sales presentations. The best events I’ve been to, with the most interesting and talented speakers, were always cheaper.
- wtracy 8y ago
  The value proposition of a $12k conference is not in the seminar content. It's in getting into a room of sales prospects and potential investors who have already demonstrated that they can afford to spend $12k on a conference. It's like deliberately going to a bar with a steep cover charge so you only have to mingle with the "right people".
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
blacksmith_tb 8y ago
Isn't this similar to say, the mechanic who 'recommends' you do additional work not related to the reason you brought in your vehicle? Obviously that could be entirely legitimate, or not... To be cynical, it's the situation of anyone going to a specialist for a service - a dentist could just as easily 'recommend' procedures that aren't needed, for example.

jasode 8y ago

>This reminds me of having a wealth manager that is broker/dealer. [...], so it's basically advertising dressed up as advice. And your comment reminds me of one of my other examples of the "buyers buying ads": It isn't just small subscription amounts where people buy the ads in magazines; sometimes people will pay $12000 to be bombarded with ads. Who are those people and why would they do this?!? The example is the attendees to the Milken Institute conferences[0]. The ticket price is ~$12000 and it allows attendees to listen to "ad presentations" from fund managers. (Example.[1]) Yes, it's formally called a "discussion panel" but everybody knows that the fund managers on the stage are really advertising their firms' investing expertise without the vulgarity of explicitly labeling it "ads". If one only has an uncompromising view that _all_ ads are evil, it will not make any sense why pension fund custodians would pay thousands to view ads. On the other hand, if there's wiggle room for "relevant ads", the payment of $12k for ad presentations is perfectly rational. [0] https://www.milkeninstitute.org/events/conferences/ https://www.milkeninstitute.org/events/conferences/ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpFOPHUhRBg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpFOPHUhRBg

mikeash 8y ago
Do the attendees pay for their own tickets, or are they able to get their fund to pay? If the latter, it just tells us that the fringe benefits of the conference are worth more than zero, and nothing about the benefits of ads.
- jasode 8y ago
  >Do the attendees pay for their own tickets, or are they able to get their fund to pay? There's a mixture of both. The pension officer for institutions like California Retirement System will have his/her ticket paid but other folks that run their own small fund will pay their own way. The attendees all have the problem of "where do I put my institution's money?" and they go to the conference to listen to various presentations to be persuaded. Yes, there are also chances for networking and "meet & greet" but the event is largely a marketplace hub for "sellers" (funds) and "buyers" (institutions). The sellers (e.g. the hedge funds and the billionaire managers that appear on the stage) sponsor the show which in effect also funds Milken's 501c charity institution.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
Presentations/conferences in general serve as an excuse to network and have off the record conversations. Plus people don’t necessarily pay out of their own pocket.
AJ007 8y ago
From my own personal experience I’ve found that the more expensive a full conference pass is, the more the sessions are just sales presentations. The best events I’ve been to, with the most interesting and talented speakers, were always cheaper.
wtracy 8y ago
The value proposition of a $12k conference is not in the seminar content. It's in getting into a room of sales prospects and potential investors who have already demonstrated that they can afford to spend $12k on a conference. It's like deliberately going to a bar with a steep cover charge so you only have to mingle with the "right people".
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

blacksmith_tb 8y ago

Isn't this similar to say, the mechanic who 'recommends' you do additional work not related to the reason you brought in your vehicle? Obviously that could be entirely legitimate, or not... To be cynical, it's the situation of anyone going to a specialist for a service - a dentist could just as easily 'recommend' procedures that aren't needed, for example.