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Meanwhile I eat pure vegetarian (almost vegan) diet that’s low in protein (comparatively), am always sated, have a lot of energy, am strong and slim and rarely

Meanwhile I eat pure vegetarian (almost vegan) diet that’s low in protein (comparatively), am always sated, have a lot of energy, am strong and slim and rarely sleepy during the day. So one piece of anecdata seems to refute your piece of anecdata. Not to mention I’m willing to bet I’m far less likely to get cancer and kidney problems than you (assuming everything else equal)

vinceguidry 8y ago
There's no need to get defensive. Merely sharing one's experience need not be an attack on yours. You didn't have to refute his anecdata.
- saurik 8y ago
  I did not read that comment as "defensive": it is merely "powerful" (which is good).
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    Perhaps because you agreed with his sentiment.
- JofArnold 8y ago
  One has a duty to refute poor advice - especially when OP is making general recommendations based one a single data point and where said recommendations are demonstrably bad for the environment, animals and his own health.
gnulinux 8y ago
If we're going to speak in the language of anecdata, I must say that I tried every diet out there tried for months (all vegan, vegetarian (vegan+eggs+cheese+milk), pescetarian (vegan+salmon), rice and bean based, all meat, all meat + avacado....) And vegan diet was by far the worst (makes me feel bad, did consistently ~40% of my performance working out.) I can go on hours to advocate my own favorite diet, but this is essentially horseshit. Also there is no conclusive evidence meat correlates with cancer. Unprocessed meat anyway. Your comment comes of very condescending. I'm sorry, this is not intended directly to you, but this is a problem widely present with vegans. We have 5 people talking about diets, and if one them is vegan, they'll be dominating the whole thing and claim everyone else is unhealthy and clueless. This is not fact based and does not support good discussions.
- JofArnold 8y ago
  Regarding not feeling well on a vegan diet, have you considered whether it was due to your gut bacteria not having adjusted yet? I was very much a carnivore for the first 32 years of my life (I was a hunter and came from a hunting family) so it took me a couple of months to adapt to a vegetarian diet due to the greatly increased fibre. I didn’t mean to come off condescending but I did mean to attack. Recommending a high meat diet in this world is like recommending people drive gas guzzlers. It is irresponsible and selfish. The time for that behaviour has gone and we all need to be willing to give up a few things for the future of the planet. Regarding vegans being very pushy (I am not one and don’t intend to be) I think that’s reasonable. It is unquestionable scientifically that the world will be better off if people didn’t eat meat. Given that, why would you not want to push hard for change? On a more individual vegan diets absolutely are more healthy. The longest lived people in the world (subtracting genetics) are vegetarian or vegan. I cannot fathom how you could think otherwise; I mean just look at stomach and colorectal cancers. Figures are very clear.
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    > I didn’t mean to come off condescending but I did mean to attack. Recommending a high meat diet in this world is like recommending people drive gas guzzlers. It is irresponsible and selfish. The time for that behaviour has gone and we all need to be willing to give up a few things for the future of the planet. This sort of rhetoric does nothing except taking the guilt from producer and regulator to the consumer. If we think there is a problem with meat production, there certainly is, then we need to regulate meat industry instead of harshly judging meat-eaters with hope of making them feel enough guilt to turn vegan. This is childish. The reality is we don't have enough power to regulate meat industry so we just turn into shaming our peers, something we do have power to. But this is an ineffective method. > On a more individual vegan diets absolutely are more healthy. The longest lived people in the world (subtracting genetics) are vegetarian or vegan. I cannot fathom how you could think otherwise; I mean just look at stomach and colorectal cancers. Figures are very clear. No they are not clear, vegan diet is absolutely not the healthiest period. The research on this matter is very vague and pretty much no one knows, pretending otherwise is intellectual dishonesty. Up to last 20 years we thought fats are evil and cause heart disease, which is wrong and now we know fats and cholesterol do not correlate with heart disease. We thought fibers are important to prevent constipation, which recent research shows otherwise. We learn more and more every day how important Omega 3 is. The only countries in the world with a significant vegan and vegetarian population are India and Mexico [1] and the rest only has vegans as a single digit percent minority. Also, pretending "Mediterranean diet" is meatless is horseshit. I was grown up with Mediterranean diet, and people do eat fish or meat quite regularly, except proportionally much much less. Pretty much everyone I know from my childhood ate Mediterranean diet, and I know absolutely no vegans except the ones I met in US. I do not necessarily advocate eating meat every day, but there is simply no evidence suggesting taking it completely out of your diet is a good idea. Hell, there is substantial evidence suggesting taking fatty fish out of diet is a bad idea. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country

vinceguidry 8y ago

There's no need to get defensive. Merely sharing one's experience need not be an attack on yours. You didn't have to refute his anecdata.

saurik 8y ago
I did not read that comment as "defensive": it is merely "powerful" (which is good).
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  Perhaps because you agreed with his sentiment.
JofArnold 8y ago
One has a duty to refute poor advice - especially when OP is making general recommendations based one a single data point and where said recommendations are demonstrably bad for the environment, animals and his own health.

gnulinux 8y ago

If we're going to speak in the language of anecdata, I must say that I tried every diet out there tried for months (all vegan, vegetarian (vegan+eggs+cheese+milk), pescetarian (vegan+salmon), rice and bean based, all meat, all meat + avacado....) And vegan diet was by far the worst (makes me feel bad, did consistently ~40% of my performance working out.) I can go on hours to advocate my own favorite diet, but this is essentially horseshit. Also there is no conclusive evidence meat correlates with cancer. Unprocessed meat anyway. Your comment comes of very condescending. I'm sorry, this is not intended directly to you, but this is a problem widely present with vegans. We have 5 people talking about diets, and if one them is vegan, they'll be dominating the whole thing and claim everyone else is unhealthy and clueless. This is not fact based and does not support good discussions.

JofArnold 8y ago
Regarding not feeling well on a vegan diet, have you considered whether it was due to your gut bacteria not having adjusted yet? I was very much a carnivore for the first 32 years of my life (I was a hunter and came from a hunting family) so it took me a couple of months to adapt to a vegetarian diet due to the greatly increased fibre. I didn’t mean to come off condescending but I did mean to attack. Recommending a high meat diet in this world is like recommending people drive gas guzzlers. It is irresponsible and selfish. The time for that behaviour has gone and we all need to be willing to give up a few things for the future of the planet. Regarding vegans being very pushy (I am not one and don’t intend to be) I think that’s reasonable. It is unquestionable scientifically that the world will be better off if people didn’t eat meat. Given that, why would you not want to push hard for change? On a more individual vegan diets absolutely are more healthy. The longest lived people in the world (subtracting genetics) are vegetarian or vegan. I cannot fathom how you could think otherwise; I mean just look at stomach and colorectal cancers. Figures are very clear.
- gnulinux 8y ago
  > I didn’t mean to come off condescending but I did mean to attack. Recommending a high meat diet in this world is like recommending people drive gas guzzlers. It is irresponsible and selfish. The time for that behaviour has gone and we all need to be willing to give up a few things for the future of the planet. This sort of rhetoric does nothing except taking the guilt from producer and regulator to the consumer. If we think there is a problem with meat production, there certainly is, then we need to regulate meat industry instead of harshly judging meat-eaters with hope of making them feel enough guilt to turn vegan. This is childish. The reality is we don't have enough power to regulate meat industry so we just turn into shaming our peers, something we do have power to. But this is an ineffective method. > On a more individual vegan diets absolutely are more healthy. The longest lived people in the world (subtracting genetics) are vegetarian or vegan. I cannot fathom how you could think otherwise; I mean just look at stomach and colorectal cancers. Figures are very clear. No they are not clear, vegan diet is absolutely not the healthiest period. The research on this matter is very vague and pretty much no one knows, pretending otherwise is intellectual dishonesty. Up to last 20 years we thought fats are evil and cause heart disease, which is wrong and now we know fats and cholesterol do not correlate with heart disease. We thought fibers are important to prevent constipation, which recent research shows otherwise. We learn more and more every day how important Omega 3 is. The only countries in the world with a significant vegan and vegetarian population are India and Mexico [1] and the rest only has vegans as a single digit percent minority. Also, pretending "Mediterranean diet" is meatless is horseshit. I was grown up with Mediterranean diet, and people do eat fish or meat quite regularly, except proportionally much much less. Pretty much everyone I know from my childhood ate Mediterranean diet, and I know absolutely no vegans except the ones I met in US. I do not necessarily advocate eating meat every day, but there is simply no evidence suggesting taking it completely out of your diet is a good idea. Hell, there is substantial evidence suggesting taking fatty fish out of diet is a bad idea. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country