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Not really. I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like. I don't see myself as a "Patreon competitor" in that sense. Without getting myself

by mikker 8y ago

Not really. I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like. I don't see myself as a "Patreon competitor" in that sense. Without getting myself into a debate I've only read a little about, I think good on them for controlling who gets to use their platform. I don't think of that as censorship, really. I have no plans to add anything but Stripe, no. I realize how vulnerable that makes me and my relationship with them but you have to trust someone. I have used Paypal before and I didn't like it at all.

raarts 8y ago
> I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like For whoever is interested: this is the (Google translated) text in the Terms of 10er: "The service must not be used for any illegal activity. Nor should the service be used in connection with violent, hateful, racist or similar activities. Brainbow defines in its own right what can be classified as being in one of these categories." You are indeed not a competitor for Patreon. The biggest problem people seem to have with Patreon is exactly this: every company creating its own definition of hate speech, which could result in their customers (creators) being cut off their income for things they say, even on other platforms. Which effectively creates censorship, and a growing administrative cost for all companies.
- sschueller 8y ago
  I don't understand this. Why not base it on what is legal by law in your country? Require a court order to have things removed. Take Paypal and who ever to court in your country if they deny you service because of this and threaten to have their permits to do business in your country removed.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Quite a lot of people don't want to facilitate this kind of thing, and certainly don't want to have their name associated with it.
    - mikker 8y ago
      Exactly. I fully support anyone’s right to say what they want. But I’m a business and if your business is racist bullshit (for example) I don’t want to do business with you. I’m not censoring nor silencing nor putting anyone in prison. But I’m politely refusing to receive your money and work with you. Money isn’t everything.
      - raarts 8y ago
        That's all fine and dandy, but the problem is that in this case there is no alternative, and if they are created, they are shut down, because payment processors like Paypal and Stripe refuse to do business with them. Payment processors currently have too much power. They should be legally refrained from choosing their customers, just like telecom companies for example. In most free countries telecom companies are not allowed to refuse/block customers based on people's political views. And rightly so.
    - sschueller 8y ago
      There is the underlying issue. If you don't fight for those people who you don't agree with or despise although legal you will eventually loose your freedoms too. If you want free speech you need to protect all of it.
      - pjc50 8y ago
        On the other hand, if I facilitate people arguing for fascism I will also eventually lose freedoms if they win. And in the meantime make a number of other people just that little bit more miserable.
        zozbot123 8y ago
        "Fascism" has never won by arguing, though. It isn't even a well-defined ideology! Fascism means using political violence (i.e. beating people up, or worse) to seize power in something very much like a coup d'etat; it really is as simple as that. That's not free speech, and it's not even something that our government protects. Threats are illegal. Purported "speech" that poses a clear and present danger is illegal.

by mikker 8y ago

raarts 8y ago

> I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like For whoever is interested: this is the (Google translated) text in the Terms of 10er: "The service must not be used for any illegal activity. Nor should the service be used in connection with violent, hateful, racist or similar activities. Brainbow defines in its own right what can be classified as being in one of these categories." You are indeed not a competitor for Patreon. The biggest problem people seem to have with Patreon is exactly this: every company creating its own definition of hate speech, which could result in their customers (creators) being cut off their income for things they say, even on other platforms. Which effectively creates censorship, and a growing administrative cost for all companies.

sschueller 8y ago
I don't understand this. Why not base it on what is legal by law in your country? Require a court order to have things removed. Take Paypal and who ever to court in your country if they deny you service because of this and threaten to have their permits to do business in your country removed.
- pjc50 8y ago
  Quite a lot of people don't want to facilitate this kind of thing, and certainly don't want to have their name associated with it.
  - mikker 8y ago
    Exactly. I fully support anyone’s right to say what they want. But I’m a business and if your business is racist bullshit (for example) I don’t want to do business with you. I’m not censoring nor silencing nor putting anyone in prison. But I’m politely refusing to receive your money and work with you. Money isn’t everything.
    - raarts 8y ago
      That's all fine and dandy, but the problem is that in this case there is no alternative, and if they are created, they are shut down, because payment processors like Paypal and Stripe refuse to do business with them. Payment processors currently have too much power. They should be legally refrained from choosing their customers, just like telecom companies for example. In most free countries telecom companies are not allowed to refuse/block customers based on people's political views. And rightly so.
  - sschueller 8y ago
    There is the underlying issue. If you don't fight for those people who you don't agree with or despise although legal you will eventually loose your freedoms too. If you want free speech you need to protect all of it.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      On the other hand, if I facilitate people arguing for fascism I will also eventually lose freedoms if they win. And in the meantime make a number of other people just that little bit more miserable.
      - zozbot123 8y ago
        "Fascism" has never won by arguing, though. It isn't even a well-defined ideology! Fascism means using political violence (i.e. beating people up, or worse) to seize power in something very much like a coup d'etat; it really is as simple as that. That's not free speech, and it's not even something that our government protects. Threats are illegal. Purported "speech" that poses a clear and present danger is illegal.