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I have always wanted to try something like this with stocks or commodities. Make a bot watch the market, and buy and sell. I even got far enough to imagine some

I have always wanted to try something like this with stocks or commodities. Make a bot watch the market, and buy and sell. I even got far enough to imagine some sort of genetic filtering, aka give the master bot 10k, then it distributes it to 10 bots, all which are slightly different, they spend it, the master takes any profit above 1k and invests it in another bot that is a combination of the best 2. Etc. That way your max loss would be 10k, and you might make some money.

rmc 16y ago
I'm sure all the fancy wall street trading companies have or are doing exactly that
- rfrey 16y ago
  And all the not-so-fancy ones. When books on automated trading appear in the "Personal Investment" section at Borders, which they do now, you know the prime time of the idea is probably in the past.
JabavuAdams 16y ago
Yeah, this is interesting, but there are some annoying realities: 1) If you make something like 3 intra-day trades (buy and sell on the same day) in some defined period (a week?) the SEC will classify you as a "pattern day trader". To be allowed to do that, you need an account with something like $25k USD min. 2) There are a few items that people often forget in simplified models that will completely eat any theoretical profits: brokerage fees, taxes, and currency-exchange effects (e.g. if you're a Canadian trading US stocks). 3) After all that, you're competing with the big guys who have a deep knowledge of how trading works, and fast access to more information than you do. It's an insider's game.
- JabavuAdams 16y ago
  I should add that (market-price) trades aren't completed in an all-or-nothing fashion, unless you specify this (which brings another set of costs and risks). E.g. if you want to buy 1000 shares, it might happen in several chunks (say 200, 200, 600), with the price going up each time. So, the process of buying or selling moves the price, which is another reason why trading with real money against competitors is different from training against historical data.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- dwwoelfel 16y ago
  (1) doesn't apply to futures or forex.
- templaedhel 16y ago
  I have no experience, and little intrest in stock trading. I was however interested in the AI and automation aspects of this challenge, with the stock market being a good source of data with a definite but "unknown" solution. However due to the obstructions you brought to my attention, it seems although the stock market would not be an ideal application for this.
  - JabavuAdams 16y ago
    Now I feel like a jerk for discouraging you. Motivation is fragile. :\

rmc 16y ago

I'm sure all the fancy wall street trading companies have or are doing exactly that

rfrey 16y ago
And all the not-so-fancy ones. When books on automated trading appear in the "Personal Investment" section at Borders, which they do now, you know the prime time of the idea is probably in the past.

JabavuAdams 16y ago

Yeah, this is interesting, but there are some annoying realities: 1) If you make something like 3 intra-day trades (buy and sell on the same day) in some defined period (a week?) the SEC will classify you as a "pattern day trader". To be allowed to do that, you need an account with something like $25k USD min. 2) There are a few items that people often forget in simplified models that will completely eat any theoretical profits: brokerage fees, taxes, and currency-exchange effects (e.g. if you're a Canadian trading US stocks). 3) After all that, you're competing with the big guys who have a deep knowledge of how trading works, and fast access to more information than you do. It's an insider's game.

JabavuAdams 16y ago
I should add that (market-price) trades aren't completed in an all-or-nothing fashion, unless you specify this (which brings another set of costs and risks). E.g. if you want to buy 1000 shares, it might happen in several chunks (say 200, 200, 600), with the price going up each time. So, the process of buying or selling moves the price, which is another reason why trading with real money against competitors is different from training against historical data.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
dwwoelfel 16y ago
(1) doesn't apply to futures or forex.
templaedhel 16y ago
I have no experience, and little intrest in stock trading. I was however interested in the AI and automation aspects of this challenge, with the stock market being a good source of data with a definite but "unknown" solution. However due to the obstructions you brought to my attention, it seems although the stock market would not be an ideal application for this.
- JabavuAdams 16y ago
  Now I feel like a jerk for discouraging you. Motivation is fragile. :\