4 ms·

They use water cannon in the rest of Europe, and even tear gas. What's the problem? They should have had a water cannon for the London Riots in 2012 - and that

They use water cannon in the rest of Europe, and even tear gas. What's the problem? They should have had a water cannon for the London Riots in 2012 - and that is why they purchased some. Which the current mayor has selfishly used for political points by selling them off for barely 10k. He will be praying they aren't ever needed.

pjc50 8y ago
Background on this, a fairly reasonable summary from the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33538171 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33538171 Theresa May believed that escalating to water cannon with their potential risks would further damage relations between the police and the public in mainland Britain.
EliRivers 8y ago
The government specifically chose not to authorise their use. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/home-secretarys-oral-statement-on-water-cannon https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/home-secretarys-oral-...
- nailer 8y ago
  Theresa May, a political opponent of Boris Johnson, specifically chose not to authorise their use after they had been purchased, as an attack on Johnson.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - hkt 8y ago
    Or maybe she has a shred of decency?
toyg 8y ago
As a foreigner, the UK police is widely admired for their restraint. Tactics like kettling, for all their drawbacks, are absolutely preferable to the alternatives seen elsewhere in Europe. It’s one of those things, like the lack of ID cards and centuries-long administrative continuity, that really set the UK apart from most other places and made it a beacon of pragmatic liberalism. Wish for “normalization” at your peril.
- hkt 8y ago
  Yes, people don't seem to realise that we have a policing model that is probably among the best in the world. Better to kettle people occasionally than blind them with watercannon and tear gas - or as the Americans seem to prefer, shoot them in the back while they run away.
  - dang 8y ago
    We ban accounts that use HN for nationalistic flamewar, so could you please not post like this again? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
hkt 8y ago
In the UK we do policing by consent. We aren't interested in attacking our own people. Some other countries could learn by our example. The reason he "selfishly" sold them, by the way, was because they were in poor condition, cost more to keep than to sell, and were actually illegal to use. It is clear to me where you get your news from, based on what you say. It is not encouraging.
- nbevans 8y ago
  Is the condescension really needed?
- nailer 8y ago
  > In the UK we do policing by consent. We aren't interested in attacking our own people. Are we interested in letting our own people be attacked? If people can loot and burn without repercussion, do you think they'll be overly concerned with bashing you or your loved ones to steal your phone? How close was your home to the riots? > It is clear to me where you get your news from, based on what you say. It is not encouraging. This was unnecessarily personal and essentially meaningless - the other poster could say the same thing about you.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Ultimately there were serious repercussions: thousands of people were arrested and jailed. https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/04/riot-defendants-court-sentencing https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/04/riot-d... (The policing by consent issue is very real, though. Meeting riots with escalation sounds good on the night but has long consequences.)
    - nailer 8y ago
      > Meeting riots with escalation sounds good on the night You are assuming meeting riots in any way is escalating them. The riots escalated precisely because they were not met with a response. (as a side note, although I'm not disputing anything specific in the link, The Guardian is not an objective source for riot related information - The Guardian was found to have misled the public and forced to apologise by the PCC for the misleading 'Unarmed' Duggan headline)
twic 8y ago
> They should have had a water cannon for the London Riots in 2012 What? The whole deal with the riots [1] is that they were like flashmobs, they'd pop up at random. Unless you have a water cannon on every street corner, they'd spend all their time chasing round after the villains. > Which the current mayor has selfishly used for political points by selling them off for barely 10k. That is a truly bizarre - and, let's be honest, entirely partisan - way to lay the blame. [1] lootings really

pjc50 8y ago

Background on this, a fairly reasonable summary from the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33538171 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33538171 Theresa May believed that escalating to water cannon with their potential risks would further damage relations between the police and the public in mainland Britain.

EliRivers 8y ago

The government specifically chose not to authorise their use. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/home-secretarys-oral-statement-on-water-cannon https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/home-secretarys-oral-...

nailer 8y ago
Theresa May, a political opponent of Boris Johnson, specifically chose not to authorise their use after they had been purchased, as an attack on Johnson.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- hkt 8y ago
  Or maybe she has a shred of decency?

toyg 8y ago

As a foreigner, the UK police is widely admired for their restraint. Tactics like kettling, for all their drawbacks, are absolutely preferable to the alternatives seen elsewhere in Europe. It’s one of those things, like the lack of ID cards and centuries-long administrative continuity, that really set the UK apart from most other places and made it a beacon of pragmatic liberalism. Wish for “normalization” at your peril.

hkt 8y ago
Yes, people don't seem to realise that we have a policing model that is probably among the best in the world. Better to kettle people occasionally than blind them with watercannon and tear gas - or as the Americans seem to prefer, shoot them in the back while they run away.
- dang 8y ago
  We ban accounts that use HN for nationalistic flamewar, so could you please not post like this again? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

hkt 8y ago

In the UK we do policing by consent. We aren't interested in attacking our own people. Some other countries could learn by our example. The reason he "selfishly" sold them, by the way, was because they were in poor condition, cost more to keep than to sell, and were actually illegal to use. It is clear to me where you get your news from, based on what you say. It is not encouraging.

nbevans 8y ago
Is the condescension really needed?
nailer 8y ago
> In the UK we do policing by consent. We aren't interested in attacking our own people. Are we interested in letting our own people be attacked? If people can loot and burn without repercussion, do you think they'll be overly concerned with bashing you or your loved ones to steal your phone? How close was your home to the riots? > It is clear to me where you get your news from, based on what you say. It is not encouraging. This was unnecessarily personal and essentially meaningless - the other poster could say the same thing about you.
- pjc50 8y ago
  Ultimately there were serious repercussions: thousands of people were arrested and jailed. https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/04/riot-defendants-court-sentencing https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/04/riot-d... (The policing by consent issue is very real, though. Meeting riots with escalation sounds good on the night but has long consequences.)
  - nailer 8y ago
    > Meeting riots with escalation sounds good on the night You are assuming meeting riots in any way is escalating them. The riots escalated precisely because they were not met with a response. (as a side note, although I'm not disputing anything specific in the link, The Guardian is not an objective source for riot related information - The Guardian was found to have misled the public and forced to apologise by the PCC for the misleading 'Unarmed' Duggan headline)

twic 8y ago

> They should have had a water cannon for the London Riots in 2012 What? The whole deal with the riots [1] is that they were like flashmobs, they'd pop up at random. Unless you have a water cannon on every street corner, they'd spend all their time chasing round after the villains. > Which the current mayor has selfishly used for political points by selling them off for barely 10k. That is a truly bizarre - and, let's be honest, entirely partisan - way to lay the blame. [1] lootings really