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Hammers, nails, and screws a pretty much set. They're not changing regularly. An iPad becoming a laptop-replacement is happening - its progress is debatable, b

Hammers, nails, and screws a pretty much set. They're not changing regularly. An iPad becoming a laptop-replacement is happening - its progress is debatable, but it's definitely changing on each iteration.

flukus 8y ago
> Hammers, nails, and screws a pretty much set. Laptops, tablets, code and keyboards are pretty much set, they're not changing regularly. To code comfortably you need a keyboard, that's the tool for the job and one that tablets do not have. Sure you can add an external one, but then you've basically got a locked down laptop. Just look at the the comments here, at best the iPad seems to be capable of acting as a dumb terminal to interact with a keyboard for a remote server, I wouldn't consider that coding on an iPad.
- delinka 8y ago
  Looks like you're intentionally missing the point. The iPad is a tablet, and yes, it's functionality is changing every iteration - slightly with hardware, more so with the OS. Currently the iPad might not seem capable of much wrt programming, but it is changing. Therefore someone tests it out periodically. And you don't have to like it. It doesn't have to be you testing the thing out. You're completely free to live an iPad-free life.
cageface 8y ago
If anything it feels like it's becoming clear that iOS is not going to be a viable OSX replacement for most professional use cases without a huge bump up in complexity. At which point you have to wonder why bother with it at all? Microsoft seems to have a much clearer vision here and anecdotally I know quite a few people that have been Mac users for ages that have given up on iPads and bought Surface devices because they can use them to do real work.
- ddoolin 8y ago
  I actually agree with you and others pitching Microsoft products as a better replacement for this sort of thing, for sure. I use the iPad Pro because I already had it, having purchased it for a different reason entirely. My only gripe with a Surface product would be the Windows part of it, which isn't THAT bad and like you said, they have a pretty clear vision for the future of it.
  - lh7777 8y ago
    I switched from a MacBook to a Surface Pro (i5) maybe a year ago and just finished switching back to the same MacBook. I agree that Microsoft's vision for pro users is much clearer than Apple's, which is why I switched in the first place. The Surface hardware is solid for the most part, the Surface Dock is great, the pen is occasionally useful, and I really like being able to rip off the keyboard and use it as a tablet for reading instead of carrying another device. But between missing the craftsmanship of indie Mac apps and putting up with the general flakiness of Windows, I finally gave up on the Surface. Now maybe it would've helped if I got the i7 Surface (& 16 gb RAM) and just put up with the resulting fan noise (or went with the Surface Book instead), but I think it says something about the state of Windows that my 1.3 GHz Core M MacBook is smoother and more reliable than a Surface Pro that's 3 years newer and has double the clock speed.
    - cageface 8y ago
      Microsoft really needs to win back developer mindshare. They're doing a lot of things correctly now but they've lost a lot of ground over the years.
      - lh7777 8y ago
        Apple, too, though. Apple needs to show via their hardware choices that they're still committed to developers and other pros, and Microsoft needs to keep cleaning up Windows.
- chipotle_coyote 8y ago
  I think it's very easy to take a narrow view of "professional" here. iOS may never be a viable macOS replacement for programmers (although I don't think I'd place money on that), but there are professionals out there right now editing podcasts with Ferrite, editing videos with LumaFusion, doing multitrack music sequencing with Beat Maker, editing photos with Lightroom (and a host of other apps), writing Hollywood screenplays with Slugline or novels with Scrivener -- and doing a lot of more "mundane" work that is nonetheless absolutely professional level with Microsoft Office, Keynote, OmniGraffle, and others. What an iPad will absolutely never do is mimic an existing workflow. People who try to do that are going to hit brick walls fast. I wouldn't be surprised to see full-fledged programming environments on iOS in the next few years (and to see iOS itself open up in possibly surprising ways), but I suspect they aren't going to look much like the programming environments we're used to. I'm glad people love their Surfaces. They look like great devices. And, yeah, I wish I could do web development more easily on my iPad. But I'm a technical writer and a fiction writer, do both professionally, and have used the iPad to do (gasp) real work in both fields.
  - cageface 8y ago
    It's clear that some "professional" work can be done on an iPad. Depending on your use case it might even have some advantages compared to a desktop or laptop. But for the vast majority of cases the iPad equivalent, if it exists at all, is seriously underpowered compared to the desktop options. And there are some fundamental reasons why I expect it to stay this way. Mainly that touch is a very low resolution input mechanism but also that Apple has utterly failed to create a healthy market for sustainable professional software businesses.
- briandear 8y ago
  > real work? What’s real work?

flukus 8y ago

> Hammers, nails, and screws a pretty much set. Laptops, tablets, code and keyboards are pretty much set, they're not changing regularly. To code comfortably you need a keyboard, that's the tool for the job and one that tablets do not have. Sure you can add an external one, but then you've basically got a locked down laptop. Just look at the the comments here, at best the iPad seems to be capable of acting as a dumb terminal to interact with a keyboard for a remote server, I wouldn't consider that coding on an iPad.

delinka 8y ago
Looks like you're intentionally missing the point. The iPad is a tablet, and yes, it's functionality is changing every iteration - slightly with hardware, more so with the OS. Currently the iPad might not seem capable of much wrt programming, but it is changing. Therefore someone tests it out periodically. And you don't have to like it. It doesn't have to be you testing the thing out. You're completely free to live an iPad-free life.

cageface 8y ago

If anything it feels like it's becoming clear that iOS is not going to be a viable OSX replacement for most professional use cases without a huge bump up in complexity. At which point you have to wonder why bother with it at all? Microsoft seems to have a much clearer vision here and anecdotally I know quite a few people that have been Mac users for ages that have given up on iPads and bought Surface devices because they can use them to do real work.

ddoolin 8y ago
I actually agree with you and others pitching Microsoft products as a better replacement for this sort of thing, for sure. I use the iPad Pro because I already had it, having purchased it for a different reason entirely. My only gripe with a Surface product would be the Windows part of it, which isn't THAT bad and like you said, they have a pretty clear vision for the future of it.
- lh7777 8y ago
  I switched from a MacBook to a Surface Pro (i5) maybe a year ago and just finished switching back to the same MacBook. I agree that Microsoft's vision for pro users is much clearer than Apple's, which is why I switched in the first place. The Surface hardware is solid for the most part, the Surface Dock is great, the pen is occasionally useful, and I really like being able to rip off the keyboard and use it as a tablet for reading instead of carrying another device. But between missing the craftsmanship of indie Mac apps and putting up with the general flakiness of Windows, I finally gave up on the Surface. Now maybe it would've helped if I got the i7 Surface (& 16 gb RAM) and just put up with the resulting fan noise (or went with the Surface Book instead), but I think it says something about the state of Windows that my 1.3 GHz Core M MacBook is smoother and more reliable than a Surface Pro that's 3 years newer and has double the clock speed.
  - cageface 8y ago
    Microsoft really needs to win back developer mindshare. They're doing a lot of things correctly now but they've lost a lot of ground over the years.
    - lh7777 8y ago
      Apple, too, though. Apple needs to show via their hardware choices that they're still committed to developers and other pros, and Microsoft needs to keep cleaning up Windows.
chipotle_coyote 8y ago
I think it's very easy to take a narrow view of "professional" here. iOS may never be a viable macOS replacement for programmers (although I don't think I'd place money on that), but there are professionals out there right now editing podcasts with Ferrite, editing videos with LumaFusion, doing multitrack music sequencing with Beat Maker, editing photos with Lightroom (and a host of other apps), writing Hollywood screenplays with Slugline or novels with Scrivener -- and doing a lot of more "mundane" work that is nonetheless absolutely professional level with Microsoft Office, Keynote, OmniGraffle, and others. What an iPad will absolutely never do is mimic an existing workflow. People who try to do that are going to hit brick walls fast. I wouldn't be surprised to see full-fledged programming environments on iOS in the next few years (and to see iOS itself open up in possibly surprising ways), but I suspect they aren't going to look much like the programming environments we're used to. I'm glad people love their Surfaces. They look like great devices. And, yeah, I wish I could do web development more easily on my iPad. But I'm a technical writer and a fiction writer, do both professionally, and have used the iPad to do (gasp) real work in both fields.
- cageface 8y ago
  It's clear that some "professional" work can be done on an iPad. Depending on your use case it might even have some advantages compared to a desktop or laptop. But for the vast majority of cases the iPad equivalent, if it exists at all, is seriously underpowered compared to the desktop options. And there are some fundamental reasons why I expect it to stay this way. Mainly that touch is a very low resolution input mechanism but also that Apple has utterly failed to create a healthy market for sustainable professional software businesses.
briandear 8y ago
> real work? What’s real work?