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Any organized reforms requires enough of the population to agree to substantial lifestyle changes and sacrifice, and that starts at the individual level. How d

by jly 8y ago

Any organized reforms requires enough of the population to agree to substantial lifestyle changes and sacrifice, and that starts at the individual level. How do we expect people to agree to reduce meat consumption, or fly/drive less, or just consume less if we don't get enough of them to actually do it willingly? Green technologies and innovations will certainly help but I'm not happy just waiting for some breakthrough and throwing money at it in the meantime. Arguing that individuals can't make any meaningful difference is also a cop out - if my small sacrifice won't help, then why bother? This seems like a terrible perspective. > Individual action is merely pandering to the laziness and timidity of those who find it easier to stop eating delicious foods entirely than to have a conversation with someone who disagrees with them about politics. What makes you think this is a lazy and timid group? It's also worth pointing out that many (maybe most?) who choose to forgo meat do it primarily for ethical reasons.

scythe 8y ago
> How do we expect people to agree to reduce meat consumption, or fly/drive less, or just consume less if we don't get enough of them to actually do it willingly? 40% of the United States does not believe the scientific consensus about anthropogenic global warming. Two out of every five people do not actually believe there is a problem to be solved! Start there! Most of the behaviors that need to be changed will come as a significant disadvantage to any individual who undertakes the change unilaterally. You're going to have a hard time competing in the job market if you're one of a very few who won't drive. You won't be out of a job if everyone is in it together. Everyone will think you're a weirdo if you're the only person who doesn't heat their house. Your parents will be very unhappy if you're the only child who doesn't fly home every year. Your HOA will object if you incinerate your own trash instead of sending it to a land-fill. So on, and so forth: no man is an island. And of course, what's particularly inappropriate is that so many vegans like being contrarians, prefer feeling morally superior to those around them, etc. Contrarianism and vanity will never motivate the unwashed masses to do what is necessary. Your virtues are a sand-castle beneath a waterfall. >What makes you think this is a lazy and timid group? Because they're putting the majority of their efforts into things that make them feel good! Look at you: "I'm not happy just waiting". I'm not interested in being happy, I'm interested in stopping a catastrophe. You don't like arguing with conservatives. You like feeling good about what you eat. Stop doing what you like. It's not about what you like. You probably really won't like forging a compromise with people who couldn't care less about animal rights or agricultural land use or nitrosamines, but you will have to do it anyway. You won't like trying to appeal to their beliefs so you can make them do what you want, but you have to do it or they won't do what you want. Climate activism is a political quest, not a personal one. The bottom line is that we must win. Feeling good is useless.

by jly 8y ago

scythe 8y ago

> How do we expect people to agree to reduce meat consumption, or fly/drive less, or just consume less if we don't get enough of them to actually do it willingly? 40% of the United States does not believe the scientific consensus about anthropogenic global warming. Two out of every five people do not actually believe there is a problem to be solved! Start there! Most of the behaviors that need to be changed will come as a significant disadvantage to any individual who undertakes the change unilaterally. You're going to have a hard time competing in the job market if you're one of a very few who won't drive. You won't be out of a job if everyone is in it together. Everyone will think you're a weirdo if you're the only person who doesn't heat their house. Your parents will be very unhappy if you're the only child who doesn't fly home every year. Your HOA will object if you incinerate your own trash instead of sending it to a land-fill. So on, and so forth: no man is an island. And of course, what's particularly inappropriate is that so many vegans like being contrarians, prefer feeling morally superior to those around them, etc. Contrarianism and vanity will never motivate the unwashed masses to do what is necessary. Your virtues are a sand-castle beneath a waterfall. >What makes you think this is a lazy and timid group? Because they're putting the majority of their efforts into things that make them feel good! Look at you: "I'm not happy just waiting". I'm not interested in being happy, I'm interested in stopping a catastrophe. You don't like arguing with conservatives. You like feeling good about what you eat. Stop doing what you like. It's not about what you like. You probably really won't like forging a compromise with people who couldn't care less about animal rights or agricultural land use or nitrosamines, but you will have to do it anyway. You won't like trying to appeal to their beliefs so you can make them do what you want, but you have to do it or they won't do what you want. Climate activism is a political quest, not a personal one. The bottom line is that we must win. Feeling good is useless.