2 ms·

>It seems like a much needed improvement over the old plan which will have less costs and inconvenience... This is true. (Along with everything else you posted

>It seems like a much needed improvement over the old plan which will have less costs and inconvenience... This is true. (Along with everything else you posted.) At the same time though, all of this will mean less money for contractors. I have no problem with that, just wondering how much resistance this thing will meet? Because I know a lot of entities out there were banking on making a lot of money off of MTA lines in the near future.

bobthepanda 8y ago
There will be plenty of money, at least for this initial contract. The full-shutdown contract was already issued, which will either lead to lots of legal wrangling as the MTA cancels the contract, the mother of all change orders that drives up the cost, or a little bit of A and a little bit of B. The better engineering is certainly a plus, but the time to have brought this up would've been two years ago when they started talking about all this in the first place. Cuomo has been the governor for a better part of a decade, this reeks of political oppurtunism.
- skybrian 8y ago
  I agree that it would have been better to plan it right the first time, but would spin this a little differently: The governor shouldn't have had to get involved at all, but I think it's good that he did. I wonder about the planning process that made it necessary. Something was screwed up there. If this is opportunism, more of that, please, rather than letting bad plans go through.
  - ringwalt 8y ago
    You might already be aware, but the MTA was founded by NY state and much of its management is nominated directly by the governor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Authority#Governance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Au... It's a corporation distinct from the state government but the governor still influences major decisions, whereas the local government doesn't have any direct control.
  - gwright 8y ago
    My not so wild guess is that the politicians and government employees (and their unions) are too cozy with the construction unions. Public infrastructure projects in general seem to have above market costs and NYC is sort of notorious for problems in this area. (e.g. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiu-JH_2NLfAhXFm-AKHVMPBmoQFjAAegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F12%2F28%2Fnyregion%2Fnew-york-subway-construction-costs.html&usg=AOvVaw1mxcDYM1oQw_zhdXAqXOa- https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...)
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    The subway is governed by brinksmanship, and is set up so that the governor can have as little or as much perceived influence over the subway as is convenient. The governor pushing the MTA to complete the Second Avenue Subway on time: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/nyregion/second-ave-subway-andrew-cuomo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/nyregion/second-ave-subwa... The subway was then found not to have completed safety testing in the sake of opening "on time": https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/20/nyregion/second-avenue-subway-safety.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/20/nyregion/second-avenue-su... The governor lambasting fare hikes that are largely the result of his administration underfunding the agency, and blaming it on "waste" by his own administrators: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-cuomo-mta-fare-hikes-lehrer-20181119-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-cuomo-mta-f... In fact, this most recent thing happened after he decided to interrupt subway service in this tunnel for a photo op two weeks ago, despite the fact that his agency has known about it for almost three years now. http://bedfordandbowery.com/2018/12/watch-gov-cuomo-sample-the-l-train-tunnels-toxic-cocktail/ http://bedfordandbowery.com/2018/12/watch-gov-cuomo-sample-t...

bobthepanda 8y ago

There will be plenty of money, at least for this initial contract. The full-shutdown contract was already issued, which will either lead to lots of legal wrangling as the MTA cancels the contract, the mother of all change orders that drives up the cost, or a little bit of A and a little bit of B. The better engineering is certainly a plus, but the time to have brought this up would've been two years ago when they started talking about all this in the first place. Cuomo has been the governor for a better part of a decade, this reeks of political oppurtunism.

skybrian 8y ago
I agree that it would have been better to plan it right the first time, but would spin this a little differently: The governor shouldn't have had to get involved at all, but I think it's good that he did. I wonder about the planning process that made it necessary. Something was screwed up there. If this is opportunism, more of that, please, rather than letting bad plans go through.
- ringwalt 8y ago
  You might already be aware, but the MTA was founded by NY state and much of its management is nominated directly by the governor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Authority#Governance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Au... It's a corporation distinct from the state government but the governor still influences major decisions, whereas the local government doesn't have any direct control.
- gwright 8y ago
  My not so wild guess is that the politicians and government employees (and their unions) are too cozy with the construction unions. Public infrastructure projects in general seem to have above market costs and NYC is sort of notorious for problems in this area. (e.g. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiu-JH_2NLfAhXFm-AKHVMPBmoQFjAAegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F12%2F28%2Fnyregion%2Fnew-york-subway-construction-costs.html&usg=AOvVaw1mxcDYM1oQw_zhdXAqXOa- https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...)
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  The subway is governed by brinksmanship, and is set up so that the governor can have as little or as much perceived influence over the subway as is convenient. The governor pushing the MTA to complete the Second Avenue Subway on time: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/nyregion/second-ave-subway-andrew-cuomo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/nyregion/second-ave-subwa... The subway was then found not to have completed safety testing in the sake of opening "on time": https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/20/nyregion/second-avenue-subway-safety.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/20/nyregion/second-avenue-su... The governor lambasting fare hikes that are largely the result of his administration underfunding the agency, and blaming it on "waste" by his own administrators: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-cuomo-mta-fare-hikes-lehrer-20181119-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-cuomo-mta-f... In fact, this most recent thing happened after he decided to interrupt subway service in this tunnel for a photo op two weeks ago, despite the fact that his agency has known about it for almost three years now. http://bedfordandbowery.com/2018/12/watch-gov-cuomo-sample-the-l-train-tunnels-toxic-cocktail/ http://bedfordandbowery.com/2018/12/watch-gov-cuomo-sample-t...