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There are smaller things (bicycles, motorcycles, pedestrians) that can sneak into the gap between the side and rearview mirror views here. And colliding with on

• m1n1 8y ago
  This, and the other comments that say turning your head is still necessary. I tried what the link suggests and had many instances where a motorcycle zipped by close to my car -- I didn't notice them until [what would have been] too late because I couldn't see the area next to my car easily that way. Now I have my mirrors adjusted so I can see motorcycles better, and I turn my head to check the remainder. All humans are legally blind in their peripheral vision just a few degrees off-axis, so I make sure to focus where I claim to be checking.
  • Freestyler_3 8y ago
    This method requires you to also lean into the mirror to see more towards the side of the car. It is ridiculous, because the side mirrors should give you a far away view, and then you look to the side to make sure that closeby there is nothing either. You only have to turn your head. Now this method in the article would make you lean into mirror to get behind you, then you go back to normal position and look in the mirror, then you look to the side. Someone thinks they have found a hack to mirrors and driving, but they are just making it more dangerous especially by spreading this new interesting way. The message still stands that a lot of drivers could have avoided hitting someone if they had used their mirrors and looked to the side. Accidents however often happen because of distraction causing a driver not to do what they normally would do.
    • ams6110 8y ago
      I have my mirrors set as TFA describes. I dislike the surprise of having a clear view in the mirror and then noticing a vehicle is actually next to you but behind the cutoff of peripheral vision. That said, I still turn my head and check before changing lanes. Belt and suspenders.
    • pdonis 8y ago
      > This method requires you to also lean into the mirror to see more towards the side of the car. You don't need to move your head at all to see a car at any point while it is coming up behind you and passing you: that's the whole point of adjusting your mirrors the way the article describes. As the article notes, you should still turn your head before making a maneuver like changing lanes. But because your mirrors are giving you more coverage, the head turning doesn't need to be as extreme.
      • danjayh 8y ago
        Exactly. The article doesn't state it quite so clearly, but any mirror showing space that can't be occupied by another vehicle is wasted mirror. Turn them out further.
        • m1n1 8y ago
          Disagree, see my reply to your parent.
      • m1n1 8y ago
        > You don't need to move your head at all to see a car... But what I'm saying is the article's suggestion doesn't allow me to see something smaller like a motorcycle with the mirrors, and either I'd have to turn my head even further to see it with the mirrors in suggested position to check that area or -- worse yet -- I can't physically see that spot without the aid of a mirror.
        • pdonis 8y ago
          > the article's suggestion doesn't allow me to see something smaller like a motorcycle with the mirrors In other words, you now have some amount of "blind spot" for motorcycles--but only motorcycles. Whereas, with the mirrors adjusted further in, you still have some blind spot for motorcycles--though perhaps less than with them adjusted further out--but you also now have a blind spot for cars, which you don't have with the mirrors adjusted further out. And cars are much more common than motorcycles, so adjusting the mirrors further out is a net gain in how many vehicles you can see with the mirrors. An even better solution is cameras like the ones that some higher end vehicles now have for changing lanes. In the ones I've seen, when you turn on your turn signal, your vehicle's screen (the one that shows the backup camera image when you're in reverse) shows a view of everything on that side of your vehicle. No blind spot for anything. Eventually I'm hoping this will become mainstream (the way backup cameras are getting to be).
  • jacobolus 8y ago
    > All humans are legally blind in their peripheral vision just a few degrees off-axis, This is a misleading summary. Humans can’t read text or distinguish fine textures in peripheral vision, but peripheral vision is very good at detecting moving objects (that’s arguably its main purpose). I like to think of peripheral vision as “prey vision” – as in, “what would I need to know about my environment if I were a deer and a wolf might jump out at me from any side, and my main response should be to run away as soon as possible?”
    • mh- 8y ago
      > detecting moving objects substantial movement relative to your position/trajectory.
      • hnuser1234 8y ago
        Not to be rude, but yeah, what else would they mean? Is your peripheral good at picking up anything on the planet since it's always spinning? Everything is always moving relative to something else.
        • jdbernard 8y ago
          It's important to be explicitly clear in this case because objects traveling next to you in the road, which would be visible only in your peripheral vision, may be effectively stationary reflective to you. So you can't rely on your peripheral vision to notice them.
          • hnuser1234 8y ago
            Ah yeah, got it.
        • Piskvorrr 8y ago
          Hello CBDR, brace for impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_bearing,_decreasing_range https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_bearing,_decreasing_r...
  • nostrademons 8y ago
    I've got my mirrors set as the article describes. I've had motorcycles zip by right beside the car, splitting lanes. I saw them coming, and had them in complete view from when they entered the rearview mirror to the side mirror to out the side window. I've measured the exact point at which an object leaves the field of vision of the side mirror, and I'm pretty sure it's slightly ahead of the driver side window, at which point glancing at the mirror will see them anyway. There's potentially a blind spot if a motorcyclist or bicyclist is on the far side of the lane next to you (not close to the car, but lined up with it), but as long as you change lanes slowly and don't just barrel across 4 lanes of traffic you'll see them long before you hit them.
    • salex89 8y ago
      True, but convex mirrors help a lot. I'm not sure do all cars have them, though...
      • mauvehaus 8y ago
        Federal law prohibits them on the driver's side in the US[0]. [0] https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/30/in-defense-of-convex-drivers-side-mirrors/ https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/30/in-defense-of-co...
        • Casseres 8y ago
          Clarification: federal law permits them on the drivers side in the US as long as the mirrors also have the required flat mirror [0]. [0] same link, and the fact that my vehicle came from the US manufacturer with both.
          • johnmaguire2013 8y ago
            I have a 2017 Ford Fusion with a "blind spot mirror" (i.e. a small convex mirror in the corner of the flat mirror) and I have no idea why all cars don't have them. With the left and right mirrors adjusted to just barely see the edge of the car, I have no blind spots (assuming you are careful to check the small mirror separately from the main mirror.)
  • lmilcin 8y ago
    Turning your head is not necessary. When you have side mirrors set up correctly you need to first look in the rear view mirror and only then in the side mirror.
    • atoav 8y ago
      You will not always drive cars with perfectly adjusted (or adjustable) mirrors. The responsible thing to do (if you can) is to turn around. For me this is mostly about the extra time it keeps me from making a stupid deadly mistakes. Switching lanes that way takes longer, and this is a feature not a bug.
      • lmilcin 8y ago
        The responsible thing is to adjust your mirrors to be able yo drive safely. Where I live (EU) all new cars are required to have adjustable mirrors and have been for a very long time. I would expect the same for US.
    • CamperBob2 8y ago
      The problem is, the "correct" way to set up your side mirrors involves adjusting them so that you can't see the side of your own car without craning your neck. This, in turn, means that your mirrors might not be where you left them. If someone bumps your mirror in a parking lot, you may not notice that you now have a sizable blind spot close to your car. So I usually compromise by keeping a small sliver of the car visible in the mirrors and turning my head at least slightly when I use them. I think that's probably the way to optimize for real-world safety. Another pet peeve is a feature my own car has, which is an auto-dimming function that's intended to cut down on glare from nearby headlights. If I turn that on, the side mirrors get so dark that I can't see cars that don't have their headlights on, which is all too common near dusk around here. Extremely dangerous implementation of an otherwise helpful feature. One of these days I'm going to open up the mirror housings and clip the appropriate wires, since I really only want the interior mirror to adjust itself.
      • lmilcin 8y ago
• deltaecho1338 8y ago
  The Car Talk guys used to advocate for this method. I did it for a while, and liked it. Until I almost killed a motorcyclist.
  • ketralnis 8y ago
    I'm a motorcyclist in a crowded city and sadly this is a multi-daily occurrence
    • deltaecho1338 8y ago
      Sorry =( As a bike commuter I can relate.
    • Noumenon72 8y ago
      As a bicyclist, I always drove so that even if a car had no idea I was there at all, I would be safe or have a plan to dodge. On a motorcycle, I have to think that any time I entered a car's blind spot I would alert and planning to leave. Even in a car I don't hang out there.
• mveety 8y ago
  This is fantastic advice. The only thing I can really add is you should be keeping track of what’s around you, don’t look just before a lane change. Having good situational awareness is the most important thing when driving.
  • danjayh 8y ago
    Absolutely, this is the best advice in this thread. In the event that I lose track of what's behind me, I will even sometimes go as far as intentionally varying my speed a bit to get something to go around me so I can re-establish a complete mental picture with 100% certainty.
    • blattimwind 8y ago
      Or maybe use your mirrors or shoulder check instead of flying blind.
      • danjayh 8y ago
        Thanks for the snarky but uninformed reply. I will edify you: There are some vehicles in which mirrors and should check alone are not enough to get a complete picture, and the only way to know what's around you is to keep track. Large RVs, trucks towing large trailers, etc. all fall into this category. Sedans, compact crossovers, and large SUVs with decent visibility are all comparatively simple to drive.
  • InitialLastName 8y ago
    Biking, I'm perpetually baffled by the people who drive up behind me, overtake me, and seem to forget I'm there before they even finish passing me. The worst case is when they expect to turn right soon; I consistently have drivers half-overtake me and then start moving towards me, or turn right across a bike lane without looking.
    • wahern 8y ago
      For a stretch of a few hundred feet (like a city block) where you'll both likely come to a stop, do you prefer cars overtake you beforehand or to trail behind? Do cars trailing you make you anxious? I don't think I've ever forgotten about a biker I've passed, but I also like to avoid situations where I might forget, which put the biker in a position to surprise me, or which impede my maneuverability if something else happens. But while I'm okay poking along for a block, if there's traffic behind me then that could result in an impatient driver overtaking both of us, which could be far worse. It's a tricky balancing act.
• 8ytecoder 8y ago
  I relearnt driving as an adult and had a driving instructor. This is what he insisted again and again and again. It's now a second nature for me to turn my head quickly and glance at the blind spot before switching lanes or turning. It's way too many times I have noticed a motorbike/bicycle has sneaked into that spot. Mirrors and adjustments are all good but this (simple) extra step avoids accidents.
• njarboe 8y ago
  If you turn on your turn signal and don't start your lane change before at least one blink has occurred, this really helps out motorcyclists and bicyclists (and everyone else).
• danjayh 8y ago
  Agree that extra caution is needed for pedestrians and bicycles. Having said that, I never understood why bicycles aren't required to ride on the sidewalks in areas that have them. The threat posed by a car to a bike is much greater than the threat posed by a bike to a pedestrian, therefore, to maximize safety bikes should be on the sidewalk. As far as motorcycles are concerned - I think they're a bad idea in general. I have a cycle endorsement, and when I ride, I am acutely aware that it's on me not to get hit, because many vehicles just realistically don't have the kind of visibility to reliably spot motorcycles. The law should probably be updated to reflect that ... because although most bikers are aware that that's how it is in reality, it's not codified anywhere.
  • johnbrodie 8y ago
    Updated how? If I'm on a motorcycle and get hit, it should be assumed to be my fault?
  • AceyMan 8y ago
    > I never understood why bicycles aren't required to ride on the sidewalks in areas that have them. I'm so positively gobsmacked that a statement this plainly ignorant came from a fellow HN participant, I don't even know where to begin. Start with: bicycles are vehicles—always have been, in fact. Pedestrians are not. Sidewalks are for pedestrians. (It's not a "sideride" after all. ) Even razor/bird scooters on sidewalks are typically forbidden—we have PSAs on the buses here in LA reminding e-scooter riders to ride in the road. Bikes can participate in traffic, so they ought to be on the road. Bikes mix better with cars than bikes mix with pedx: anyone who walks in a city regularly would know this. Wow. Just ... wow.
    • danjayh 8y ago
      Ignorant because it's not what you believe, or because you have data to justify your beliefs? Explain to me the logic from a safety perspective. 40mph car vs 15mph bike? Biker is lucky to live. 15mph bike vs 4mph pedestrian? Maybe a broken bone, if that. Besides insulting me and declaring that because bicycles are vehicles they should be on the road, you provide no quantitative reasoning to back your position. I fail to see how that's enlightened. Let's first acknowledge that between mixed traffic (whatever the mix may be) collisions will happen, and then discuss how to minimize harm.
• AceyMan 8y ago
  I drive a full size pickup (with a camper shell) in Los Angeles traffic, so I appreciate the value of well aimed side mirrors. (fwiw, I'm primarily a cyclist, and only drive the truck on the weekends for shopping). I remember reading a great (and hilarious) quip about side mirror configuration: "There is no point in seeing your own car through the side mirrors because it's the one thing on the road that you cannot possibly collide with." /Acey me: safety nerd, ex-blogger/founder, urbandriver.org (RIP) /edit: phrasing/
• tempestn 8y ago
  Yes you'll probably still want to turn your head somewhat. However, the way most people adjust side mirrors, so they can see the side of the car without moving their head, is unnecessary. The view out the rear window from the rear-view mirror angles outward. Therefore if your side mirrors give you a view straight back down the sides of the car, you have overlap beginning right at the corner of your car. By turning them out further, you can increase the side coverage without creating any holes in the back. It definitely varies from one vehicle to another based on things like rear window size and position though, so your advice for testing makes sense.
  • hvidgaard 8y ago
    If there is no overlap, you've created a blind spot large enough for a motor bike or regular cyclist, and it is one you cannot easily check. By adjusting your side mirrors so you see straight with the overlap, you have eliminated the blind spot and create another one that you can easily check by turning your head.
    • tempestn 8y ago
      You don't need the mirror to point straight back to eliminate any overlap where something could actually exist though. Especially if you have some situational awareness—a thing can't just materialize right on your bumper; it would have to get there from somewhere, and you should certainly notice if a motorcycle approaches and begins tailgating a few inches off the rear corner of your car. (Any further than that, and you will see them in your mirrors if aligned properly.) For lower speeds where there might be something smaller like a pedestrian in that spot, you can still see straight back in the side mirror with a small movement of your head. So basically, at high speed, when it's most critical, you get more visual coverage with less motion of your head. At low speed you still have full coverage, with some head motion.
      • hvidgaard 8y ago
        > Especially if you have some situational awareness—a thing can't just materialize right on your bumper; it would have to get there from somewhere, and you should certainly notice if a motorcycle approaches and begins tailgating a few inches off the rear corner of your car. If you've ever driven in a city with many bicycles and mopeds that is simply impossible to keep track of. No matter how much situational awareness you have, they will seemingly materialize out of nowhere. > So basically, at high speed, when it's most critical. I disagree. The most critical is when there is greatest risk for someone to die. That is not if you collide with a car, but hit softer road users (I do not know if it's the proper English term). City driving, there will be enough to keep track of that some times something will be unexpected. The key is to know your blind spot and check it. At highway speeds, you have plenty of time to orientate you properly with either configuration.
• koonsolo 8y ago
  I drive a motorcycle, and from the other end, "being seen" is one of the most important things. The main rule is, if you can see the driver in his mirror, he can see you. You should always try to jump past the blind spots, and stay in the spots that they can see. If you have experience on the road, a lot of times you already know what a driver will do before he does it. Cars are still OK, but trucks have plenty of blind spots, and they are pretty large. Right behind them, right in front of them (!). I'm always careful around them.
  • Casseres 8y ago
    Do you believe in being seen (hi-viz vest/colors), or being heard (loud pipes)?
• grecy 8y ago
  There is an even better way, used in Latin America, Africa (and I suspect other developing countries). I've driven about 100,000 miles through 46 countries on those continents, I've had a lot of practice at what I call "Make it up driving" The rule is, who cares if it's behind you. Do whatever the hell you want, because people behind you can see you and they will get out of your way. You can't easily see them, so don't concern yourself with them. This does rely on ALL drivers being much more attentive than the average first-world driver. If you want to be polite, or you're doing something really unexpected like stopping in the driving lane to let people off or reversing through traffic, you can just tap your horn a couple of times to say "Hey everyone, look at me", and everything will just flow around you. It's amazing how well this works, even in the kind of insane free-flowing traffic most Westerners would utterly lose their minds in. I enjoy it much more because it makes driving way less boring, and you get to interact with all the other drivers too. I love too that when you come to a stop sign there is no need to stop - if all the other cars in your direction are already going you just go, and the drivers at right angles to you will compensate and watch and then their direction will go and flow sometime later. Red lights - no need to stop if there is no opposing traffic, etc. etc. I don't have statistics, though in my almost 5 years of driving in these conditions I have never once seen a fender bender, and traffic really moves way better through intersections than in developed countries where people follow the stupid rules. (Highway driving is a different story in terms of crashes and deaths in developing countries)
  • seszett 8y ago
    Statistics though show that western-style driving is definitely safer than the free for all that is common in developing countries (I speak for Jordan and Vietnam in particular, comparing them to Western Europe).
    • grecy 8y ago
      I'd bet those statistics are averaging across whole countries, so they're adding in highway driving - which, yeah, is very dangerous in developing countries. I'd be willing to be there are less crashes driving in big cities in developing countries than driving in big cities in developed countries.
• amenghra 8y ago
  This + always switch on your blinkers a few seconds before turning, even when you know nobody is around.
• hvidgaard 8y ago
  I've made this exact argument many times, but a lot of people seems to disagree with it. My guess they haven't dealt with lane-splitting two wheelers, or been driving in a European city with more bikes and mopeds than cars. It doesn't help that it's often advised in the US is to lean your head towards the window/center of the car, and adjust your mirror so you can barely see the side of the car. It creates a blind spot big enough to hide a motorcycle.
• S_A_P 8y ago
  This. I remember having a lively debate at a company "safety moment" over this. All of the managers thought this was a great idea, while a small but vocal contingent of snarky developers argued this was complete nonsense designed to make everyone feel good about being "safe". Sure, its something that you can do to increase visibility, but it lures you into a false sense of security and takes you out of the habit of looking and turning your head. that is not good. When you are piloting a multi ton hunk of steel and flammables, you should take care to look around you and be aware of everything and everyone around you. This cannot be done with Mirrors, cameras and sensors alone. Use your eyes, and turn your head. Ive a really good friend that was crushed by a car that didn't see him in the "blind spot". He had just purchased his dream bicycle, was out putting in road work, and a car swerved and smashed him between a concrete embankment and the car. 3 years later, he walks with a cane, has a replacement hip, knee and sets off any metal detector to its maximum reading. Please look around for everyone.