6 ms·

Just came to say it makes me happy to see the term "discovered" used in a what is essentially an engineering/software context, instead of the term "invented." T

Just came to say it makes me happy to see the term "discovered" used in a what is essentially an engineering/software context, instead of the term "invented." The more that people in our industry speak clearly about that fact that many of the constraints in our problem space are universal, and thus much of our solution space is discovered, not invented, the more we shift the culture to understand e.g. the absurdity of software patents, etc.

izzydata 8y ago
Do they use a similar terminology in mathematics when talking about proofs? Software solutions don't seem that much different in regards to solving specific problems.
- gregknicholson 8y ago
  This question — is maths discovered or invented? — was discussed at length in a recent BBC series: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bn9dth https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bn9dth
  - darkerside 8y ago
    I wonder if there are languages where there is no real dichotomy between these two terms
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - wlib 8y ago
      "Invent" comes from Latin and simply means "find". If you think about it, no matter what language, there is no fine line. An invention is just a discovery, but we typically use the word to describe a very specific discovery.
      - wallace_f 8y ago
        Well I always thought there was a fine line: an invention must be brought into existance witj intelligent design (probably by a human), and a discovery exists naturally.
      - darkerside 8y ago
        The English language often has multiple synonyms with a difference in connotation. Discover and invent may be synonyms (although many would disagree), but everybody would agree at least the connotation is different. My hypothesis above was that there may be languages where that connotation does not exist.
  - wallace_f 8y ago
    a YT link to ep 1: https://youtu.be/cyvDG8qjt-M https://youtu.be/cyvDG8qjt-M
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- inopinatus 8y ago
  All matter is information, and all information is functional. Therefore perception is the lazy evaluation of the universe, and discovery is the fountain of invention.
- mttyng 8y ago
  That depends heavily on your philosophical interpretation of mathematics: Platonism vs. Formalism Someone linked the BBC video, which is great, but there’s also a wonderful book that discusses this and many other facets of mathematical philosophy: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-about-Mathematics-Philosophy/dp/0192893068/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546551558&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=philosophy+of+math+shapiro&dpPl=1&dpID=41a3oT4rENL&ref=plSrch https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-about-Mathematics-Philosophy... (Sorry for the link spew) I highly recommend that book to anyone remotely interested in the field.
  - kiliantics 8y ago
    Penrose also dedicates a chapter to this in The Road to Reality
- jessriedel 8y ago
  Not sure if it was rhetorical, but to answer your actual question: Mathematicians often say they "discovered" or "found" a proof. I've never heard one say they "invented" a proof, although they might talk about "building" a formalism or framework.
ashleyn 8y ago
"Discovered" in place of "invented" is actually cited as a common error in many English style guides.
malloryerik 8y ago
Unconvinced, with respect. Patents and systems of intellectual property are also codes that create space and time, in this case financial. Without them, scientific and engineering discovery/invention has often (usually?) tended to collapse in on itself.
- stronglikedan 8y ago
  I inferred that OP was referring to the absurdity of the current software patent system and not the idea of patenting IP directly, and I agree that the current system is in dire need of an overhaul.
  - malloryerik 8y ago
    That's fair. I surely agree that poorly made IP codes can also inhibit discovery and invention. And the article notes that the corrective time-space codes are "a lot smarter than us."
- jonbesga 8y ago
  Do you have a source to read about this? Seems an interesting topic.
  - malloryerik 8y ago
    The analogy just came to me, really. Maybe some basic IP theory, or economic history? https://www.nature.com/articles/538456a https://www.nature.com/articles/538456a
zzbzq 8y ago
The etymological roots of "discover" and "invent" converge.

izzydata 8y ago

Do they use a similar terminology in mathematics when talking about proofs? Software solutions don't seem that much different in regards to solving specific problems.

gregknicholson 8y ago
This question — is maths discovered or invented? — was discussed at length in a recent BBC series: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bn9dth https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bn9dth
- darkerside 8y ago
  I wonder if there are languages where there is no real dichotomy between these two terms
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - wlib 8y ago
    "Invent" comes from Latin and simply means "find". If you think about it, no matter what language, there is no fine line. An invention is just a discovery, but we typically use the word to describe a very specific discovery.
    - wallace_f 8y ago
      Well I always thought there was a fine line: an invention must be brought into existance witj intelligent design (probably by a human), and a discovery exists naturally.
    - darkerside 8y ago
      The English language often has multiple synonyms with a difference in connotation. Discover and invent may be synonyms (although many would disagree), but everybody would agree at least the connotation is different. My hypothesis above was that there may be languages where that connotation does not exist.
- wallace_f 8y ago
  a YT link to ep 1: https://youtu.be/cyvDG8qjt-M https://youtu.be/cyvDG8qjt-M
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
inopinatus 8y ago
All matter is information, and all information is functional. Therefore perception is the lazy evaluation of the universe, and discovery is the fountain of invention.
mttyng 8y ago
That depends heavily on your philosophical interpretation of mathematics: Platonism vs. Formalism Someone linked the BBC video, which is great, but there’s also a wonderful book that discusses this and many other facets of mathematical philosophy: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-about-Mathematics-Philosophy/dp/0192893068/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546551558&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=philosophy+of+math+shapiro&dpPl=1&dpID=41a3oT4rENL&ref=plSrch https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-about-Mathematics-Philosophy... (Sorry for the link spew) I highly recommend that book to anyone remotely interested in the field.
- kiliantics 8y ago
  Penrose also dedicates a chapter to this in The Road to Reality
jessriedel 8y ago
Not sure if it was rhetorical, but to answer your actual question: Mathematicians often say they "discovered" or "found" a proof. I've never heard one say they "invented" a proof, although they might talk about "building" a formalism or framework.

ashleyn 8y ago

"Discovered" in place of "invented" is actually cited as a common error in many English style guides.

malloryerik 8y ago

Unconvinced, with respect. Patents and systems of intellectual property are also codes that create space and time, in this case financial. Without them, scientific and engineering discovery/invention has often (usually?) tended to collapse in on itself.

stronglikedan 8y ago
I inferred that OP was referring to the absurdity of the current software patent system and not the idea of patenting IP directly, and I agree that the current system is in dire need of an overhaul.
- malloryerik 8y ago
  That's fair. I surely agree that poorly made IP codes can also inhibit discovery and invention. And the article notes that the corrective time-space codes are "a lot smarter than us."
jonbesga 8y ago
Do you have a source to read about this? Seems an interesting topic.
- malloryerik 8y ago
  The analogy just came to me, really. Maybe some basic IP theory, or economic history? https://www.nature.com/articles/538456a https://www.nature.com/articles/538456a

zzbzq 8y ago

The etymological roots of "discover" and "invent" converge.