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There's plenty of game developers, there's only one Tom Cruise. And there's no path for modern devs to get any sort of selling star power unless they also do g

by hnaccy 8y ago

There's plenty of game developers, there's only one Tom Cruise. And there's no path for modern devs to get any sort of selling star power unless they also do game design (Zacktronics, Kojima, etc).

slg 8y ago
This is being downvoted, but I would curious to hear an argument for why it isn't true. It seems to me the skill set for a star in the movie business is rarer than a skill set for a star in the game industry. Also Tom Cruise isn't only a paid well because because he is a good actor, he is also paid well because he is a movie star. People go to the movies just to see him. Are there many people in the gaming industry that engender that kind of loyalty when they work on a game?
- bluedino 8y ago
  There's only 1 Tom Cruise but there's also Keanu, The Rock, Bruce Willias, Jason Statham... There's only one Shigeru Miyamoto.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    There's only one Hayao Miyazaki.
    - oxide 8y ago
      Also only one Hidetaka Miyazaki. the impact these people have is not entirely reflective by their salary, rather it is their status and reputation among the game purchasing public that tends to reflect their contributions to any given game development project
- rifung 8y ago
  I mean the reality is that developers can only have a limited impact on a game. People don't play a game because it's got 100% code coverage and the greatest end to end tests. Most of the time people play a game because it's fun. Programmers don't make games fun; it's the game designers that make it fun. Sure the game would not exist without programmers, but you can take one set of programmers and replace it with another set and largely the game will be the same to the players, assuming the skills/experience of the programmers are similar. In a way, programmers are necessary, but the most they can do is stop the game from completely falling apart. It's the game designers that have a much greater potential to make a game great.
  - EdSharkey 8y ago
    I love the assumption of the oppressed worker class mentality of some folks in the bubble. Not saying you are in the bubble necessarily, but there's been a lot unionizing and oh-the-poor-worker talk in this thread. It's easy to forget what absolutely touched lives we developers have, even the grunts. Anyhow, it is incumbent on every technical worker to find and establish their niche over time. If you get called a "unicorn" in whatever field you land in, you're in a good negotiating position for things like salary. I love this writeup[1] of the kit artists at Bethesda for example. > Of course, there’s another reason that Skyrim had only two full-time kit artists; kits are really complicated things to work on. Kits require not only the artistic ability to produce high quality visuals, but also a technical competency in their art tool, a deep understanding of the editor and design workflow, and so on. This unique blend of left and right brain is somewhat at odds with what many art professionals value. I've worked with great artists who make excellent kits but hate working on them - so they don't. > So when you’re trying to identify somebody with the the aptitude and interest to be a great kit artist, you’re basically looking for a unicorn. They're rare. And they better be paid accordingly so they don't bolt and start their own game studios! You get to negotiate if you're a unicorn. [1] https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JoelBurgess/20130501/191514/Skyrims_Modular_Approach_to_Level_Design.php https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JoelBurgess/20130501/191514/...
  - vvanders 8y ago
    > Programmers don't make games fun; it's the game designers that make it fun. Not really. About half the devs on my old team were "gameplay programmers". Solid tech chops, but also with an eye towards gameplay you can bet they tweaked the shit out of our game system. We only had 3 'dedicated' designers so a non-trivial amount of work fell in the dev's hands. To get concrete the smoothing/sticky algorithm and tuning of our aiming mechanism was created and owned by a single dev. Take a look at this[1] for a good breakdown of what goes into something like that. [1] http://drstrangevolt.blogspot.com/2012/12/aim-acceleration-in-console-shooters-part2.html http://drstrangevolt.blogspot.com/2012/12/aim-acceleration-i...
    - rifung 8y ago
      > About half the devs on my old team were "gameplay programmers". Solid tech chops, but also with an eye towards gameplay you can bet they tweaked the shit out of our game system. We only had 3 'dedicated' designers so a non-trivial amount of work fell in the dev's hands. I don't feel like you're disagreeing with me. It just sounds like the roles on your team were more blurred but the point still stands. What's meaningful isn't your title but the type of work you do. The more influence you have over the design of the game, the bigger an impact you will have on how fun it is.
- filoleg 8y ago
  Definitely in agreement with you, the parent analogy seems to work well. There are indeed people who just buy a Kojima or Kamiya (Resident Evil 2, Okami, Bayonetta) game. More than a few games that I probably would have ignored if it wasn't for their names. Luckily, none of their games have disappointed me so far (note: haven't played MGS V yet).

by hnaccy 8y ago

There's plenty of game developers, there's only one Tom Cruise. And there's no path for modern devs to get any sort of selling star power unless they also do game design (Zacktronics, Kojima, etc).

slg 8y ago

This is being downvoted, but I would curious to hear an argument for why it isn't true. It seems to me the skill set for a star in the movie business is rarer than a skill set for a star in the game industry. Also Tom Cruise isn't only a paid well because because he is a good actor, he is also paid well because he is a movie star. People go to the movies just to see him. Are there many people in the gaming industry that engender that kind of loyalty when they work on a game?

bluedino 8y ago
There's only 1 Tom Cruise but there's also Keanu, The Rock, Bruce Willias, Jason Statham... There's only one Shigeru Miyamoto.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  There's only one Hayao Miyazaki.
  - oxide 8y ago
    Also only one Hidetaka Miyazaki. the impact these people have is not entirely reflective by their salary, rather it is their status and reputation among the game purchasing public that tends to reflect their contributions to any given game development project
rifung 8y ago
I mean the reality is that developers can only have a limited impact on a game. People don't play a game because it's got 100% code coverage and the greatest end to end tests. Most of the time people play a game because it's fun. Programmers don't make games fun; it's the game designers that make it fun. Sure the game would not exist without programmers, but you can take one set of programmers and replace it with another set and largely the game will be the same to the players, assuming the skills/experience of the programmers are similar. In a way, programmers are necessary, but the most they can do is stop the game from completely falling apart. It's the game designers that have a much greater potential to make a game great.
- EdSharkey 8y ago
  I love the assumption of the oppressed worker class mentality of some folks in the bubble. Not saying you are in the bubble necessarily, but there's been a lot unionizing and oh-the-poor-worker talk in this thread. It's easy to forget what absolutely touched lives we developers have, even the grunts. Anyhow, it is incumbent on every technical worker to find and establish their niche over time. If you get called a "unicorn" in whatever field you land in, you're in a good negotiating position for things like salary. I love this writeup[1] of the kit artists at Bethesda for example. > Of course, there’s another reason that Skyrim had only two full-time kit artists; kits are really complicated things to work on. Kits require not only the artistic ability to produce high quality visuals, but also a technical competency in their art tool, a deep understanding of the editor and design workflow, and so on. This unique blend of left and right brain is somewhat at odds with what many art professionals value. I've worked with great artists who make excellent kits but hate working on them - so they don't. > So when you’re trying to identify somebody with the the aptitude and interest to be a great kit artist, you’re basically looking for a unicorn. They're rare. And they better be paid accordingly so they don't bolt and start their own game studios! You get to negotiate if you're a unicorn. [1] https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JoelBurgess/20130501/191514/Skyrims_Modular_Approach_to_Level_Design.php https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JoelBurgess/20130501/191514/...
- vvanders 8y ago
  > Programmers don't make games fun; it's the game designers that make it fun. Not really. About half the devs on my old team were "gameplay programmers". Solid tech chops, but also with an eye towards gameplay you can bet they tweaked the shit out of our game system. We only had 3 'dedicated' designers so a non-trivial amount of work fell in the dev's hands. To get concrete the smoothing/sticky algorithm and tuning of our aiming mechanism was created and owned by a single dev. Take a look at this[1] for a good breakdown of what goes into something like that. [1] http://drstrangevolt.blogspot.com/2012/12/aim-acceleration-in-console-shooters-part2.html http://drstrangevolt.blogspot.com/2012/12/aim-acceleration-i...
  - rifung 8y ago
    > About half the devs on my old team were "gameplay programmers". Solid tech chops, but also with an eye towards gameplay you can bet they tweaked the shit out of our game system. We only had 3 'dedicated' designers so a non-trivial amount of work fell in the dev's hands. I don't feel like you're disagreeing with me. It just sounds like the roles on your team were more blurred but the point still stands. What's meaningful isn't your title but the type of work you do. The more influence you have over the design of the game, the bigger an impact you will have on how fun it is.
filoleg 8y ago
Definitely in agreement with you, the parent analogy seems to work well. There are indeed people who just buy a Kojima or Kamiya (Resident Evil 2, Okami, Bayonetta) game. More than a few games that I probably would have ignored if it wasn't for their names. Luckily, none of their games have disappointed me so far (note: haven't played MGS V yet).