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every time I read stuff like this I get that ol' rise of anger: that the Internet, the great leveler, it will bring us all together regardless of where we happe

every time I read stuff like this I get that ol' rise of anger: that the Internet, the great leveler, it will bring us all together regardless of where we happen to be on earth ... at least, unless you want to build it, in which case you need to be in the same small area for 40+ hours a week. Aren't we tech types obsessed with removing single points of failure? Aren't we moving past "you must sit in a specific chair so your manager can have specific interactions with you, in person"? I know there's remote work out there; believe me, I know. But read stuff like this and browse the "who's hiring" threads, laden with ONSITE, and wonder when I'll finally be able to sever the link between the skill in my brain and sitting in that one specific chair in that one specific building in that one specific town.

12elephant 8y ago
Working in the same place, in my anecdotal experience, leads to better communication. A couple orders of magnitude better. Face-to-face communication provides much higher "bandwidth" than text-based.
- bdamm 8y ago
  This is really it. Personally I don't think VC's care, and I don't think most managers really care either. If they could have such a high quality experience remotely, they'd be happy to hire remote talent. This takes dedication, self motivation and creativity on both the manager and the employee. In person is much easier. There are shared experiences we can have. We can randomly bump into each other and have small reminder-type experiences. It's easier to get a sense of what kind of person we're working with, and that becomes an elevated sense of trust. This all matters and it's difficult to do remotely. I've done both. I prefer onsite. Currently I'm remote and honestly it's a struggle, and regular onsite visits are a must to maintain those trust bonds.
- JTon 8y ago
  Well said. I haven't found a better way to transfer complex ideas than huddling around a whiteboard with a small group. A good slide deck will work too, but it takes time/effort to compile, and doesn't allow seamless Q&A.
- diminoten 8y ago
  I've been working remotely for 2.5 years now, and it takes a lot of effort, both from me and from my boss, to keep this going, and even with all that effort I've struggled with interpersonal/communication issues. Not everyone is willing to invest in that effort. It would almost certainly be better if I were sitting in a chair at my office, but since I can't, remote work is the next best thing, and as long as both my boss and I are willing to work pretty damn hard to keep it going, it'll keep working. But I can totally see how some teams would not want to go through the extra effort. I like to think I'm worth it, but my team got to figure that out while I worked on-site for some time before leaving (a year). It's hard to roll the dice on someone you don't know (a new hire).
Apocryphon 8y ago
It hits home that at the end of the day, tech, like all industries, is controlled by money men and managers who are conservative in their business practices and fear change.
rtkwe 8y ago
The easy answer is there's other factors at play but the biggest is that as much as the dream of the internet was that companies aren't run by the people that have that dream. There's also just additional challenges to running remote employees so companies default to in person because it's easier to monitor and meet with employees in person than remotely. Until they actually start having a hard time finding good enough talent willing to move to where the work is companies would prefer to just hire a slightly worse employee than deal with the additional hassle.
cleandreams 8y ago
Having been in the Bay Area startup scene for 20 years (and now through acquisition working for one of the big tech companies) I think the reason so many startups are here is because they can hire the experienced developers that will make their startup succeed. There is a whole ecosystem here and that can't be duplicated easily (or at all).
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  But if remote were more of a thing, a startup could have access to even more experienced developers - a whole world's worth, instead of just a city's.

12elephant 8y ago

Working in the same place, in my anecdotal experience, leads to better communication. A couple orders of magnitude better. Face-to-face communication provides much higher "bandwidth" than text-based.

bdamm 8y ago
This is really it. Personally I don't think VC's care, and I don't think most managers really care either. If they could have such a high quality experience remotely, they'd be happy to hire remote talent. This takes dedication, self motivation and creativity on both the manager and the employee. In person is much easier. There are shared experiences we can have. We can randomly bump into each other and have small reminder-type experiences. It's easier to get a sense of what kind of person we're working with, and that becomes an elevated sense of trust. This all matters and it's difficult to do remotely. I've done both. I prefer onsite. Currently I'm remote and honestly it's a struggle, and regular onsite visits are a must to maintain those trust bonds.
JTon 8y ago
Well said. I haven't found a better way to transfer complex ideas than huddling around a whiteboard with a small group. A good slide deck will work too, but it takes time/effort to compile, and doesn't allow seamless Q&A.
diminoten 8y ago
I've been working remotely for 2.5 years now, and it takes a lot of effort, both from me and from my boss, to keep this going, and even with all that effort I've struggled with interpersonal/communication issues. Not everyone is willing to invest in that effort. It would almost certainly be better if I were sitting in a chair at my office, but since I can't, remote work is the next best thing, and as long as both my boss and I are willing to work pretty damn hard to keep it going, it'll keep working. But I can totally see how some teams would not want to go through the extra effort. I like to think I'm worth it, but my team got to figure that out while I worked on-site for some time before leaving (a year). It's hard to roll the dice on someone you don't know (a new hire).

Apocryphon 8y ago

It hits home that at the end of the day, tech, like all industries, is controlled by money men and managers who are conservative in their business practices and fear change.

rtkwe 8y ago

The easy answer is there's other factors at play but the biggest is that as much as the dream of the internet was that companies aren't run by the people that have that dream. There's also just additional challenges to running remote employees so companies default to in person because it's easier to monitor and meet with employees in person than remotely. Until they actually start having a hard time finding good enough talent willing to move to where the work is companies would prefer to just hire a slightly worse employee than deal with the additional hassle.

cleandreams 8y ago

Having been in the Bay Area startup scene for 20 years (and now through acquisition working for one of the big tech companies) I think the reason so many startups are here is because they can hire the experienced developers that will make their startup succeed. There is a whole ecosystem here and that can't be duplicated easily (or at all).

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
But if remote were more of a thing, a startup could have access to even more experienced developers - a whole world's worth, instead of just a city's.