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"I'm a Remainer. I'm Irish - Ireland is one of the most pro-EU nations - and I live and own a house in London. I think, despite my own interests, that the UK pr

"I'm a Remainer. I'm Irish - Ireland is one of the most pro-EU nations - and I live and own a house in London. I think, despite my own interests, that the UK probably needs to leave the EU in order to resolve the splits in society and for the UK to figure out its place in the world." I'm a UK citizen and I would really rather not have my economic future such as it is (I do not own a house in London, and would probably have difficulty raising a mortgage on a parking space there) flushed down the toilet for some mythical concept of 'control'. Economics is really important as some of my pro-Brexit neighbours are beginning to realise.

barrkel 8y ago
I think identity trumps economics. People are willing to die for their identity, whereas it's harder to get people to die for some money when it's not a matter of survival. People would rather be proud and poor than getting by under what they've mentally envisioned as a yoke, instead of owning it. Sure, economics is important. In global currency terms, the value of my home has declined substantially, I've lost a notional mid-5-figure amount expressed in EUR or USD terms. But if you're not internationally minded, if you don't visualize the possibility of yourself living outside of the UK, you're unlikely to consider it a real loss. It's a lot like how poor people can be self-limited by their self-conception, something you might have seen in teaching. (I grew up poor myself, it took some time to expand my horizons, and the process still isn't complete.) If you live your life locally, why would you care if French cheese and Spanish ham gets more expensive? You probably think it'll be better for British producers. In fact you'd probably consider it just fine if the soft southerners have to pay more for their wine. The big irony is that pro-Brexit regions have economies that are more dependent on the single market than pro-Remain London. Proving that's the case before Brexit, however, is hard - and if May's deal goes through, it'll go some way to softening the blow. So the decline will be even more imperceptible, until 20 years later, and finally you notice how shabby everything back home is when you come back from your Continental holiday.
- keithpeter 8y ago
  Some people. Remember that the demographic changes by about 750k each year (grim reaper and new cohort entering electorate). Remember also that the majority of degree educated people under 50 voted against this. I'm not seeing any decrease in polarisation whichever way it goes. Where I live, many people depend on the automotive supply chain. This is not a case of boutique cheese for us, it is a case of mass unemployment. I've lived through one of those episodes.

barrkel 8y ago

I think identity trumps economics. People are willing to die for their identity, whereas it's harder to get people to die for some money when it's not a matter of survival. People would rather be proud and poor than getting by under what they've mentally envisioned as a yoke, instead of owning it. Sure, economics is important. In global currency terms, the value of my home has declined substantially, I've lost a notional mid-5-figure amount expressed in EUR or USD terms. But if you're not internationally minded, if you don't visualize the possibility of yourself living outside of the UK, you're unlikely to consider it a real loss. It's a lot like how poor people can be self-limited by their self-conception, something you might have seen in teaching. (I grew up poor myself, it took some time to expand my horizons, and the process still isn't complete.) If you live your life locally, why would you care if French cheese and Spanish ham gets more expensive? You probably think it'll be better for British producers. In fact you'd probably consider it just fine if the soft southerners have to pay more for their wine. The big irony is that pro-Brexit regions have economies that are more dependent on the single market than pro-Remain London. Proving that's the case before Brexit, however, is hard - and if May's deal goes through, it'll go some way to softening the blow. So the decline will be even more imperceptible, until 20 years later, and finally you notice how shabby everything back home is when you come back from your Continental holiday.

keithpeter 8y ago
Some people. Remember that the demographic changes by about 750k each year (grim reaper and new cohort entering electorate). Remember also that the majority of degree educated people under 50 voted against this. I'm not seeing any decrease in polarisation whichever way it goes. Where I live, many people depend on the automotive supply chain. This is not a case of boutique cheese for us, it is a case of mass unemployment. I've lived through one of those episodes.