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Dropped out of high school and got my GED. The full story is that I grew up in Belgium - I moved to the States during Sophomore year, and the schooling was so

Dropped out of high school and got my GED. The full story is that I grew up in Belgium - I moved to the States during Sophomore year, and the schooling was so far behind that I wasn't engaged and quickly became bored. After a year I just couldn't take it anymore and dropped out.

michaelhart 16y ago
I hate it that the first thing you got to experience in the US was our crummy education system. My condolences. :(
- elliottcarlson 16y ago
  Well it gives me some perspective as what to expect when I send my own (future) kids off to school. Hopefully I will be able to teach them things to offset that.
roel_v 16y ago
Sophomore year, that's 2nd year of high school, right? What age was that? You had spend 2 years at a Belgian 'high school' (in the sense of 'secundair onderwijs', not 'hogeschool' :) ) ? Do you mind telling what program you followed in Belgium (I assume 'ASO', was it Latin-Mathematics, Latin-Greek, Economics, ...) ? Did you go to a public or private high school in the US? In a city or more rural? (Sorry for the questioning, I have a strange abstract interest in comparing educational systems across borders :) )
- elliottcarlson 16y ago
  You are correct in assuming Latin-Mathematics :) When I moved to the US I attended a public high school in Denver, CO (somewhat city), and back in Belgium I attended Atheneum van Deurne. I was 14/15 when I moved to the States. I don't mind the questions :) A little hard to remember as it's been 16 years now, but would be happy to share.
  - roel_v 16y ago
    Thanks. My understanding is that it's hard to compare US secondary education to European-style because in the US there is very little (maybe even no?) differentiation between students and material taught, out of an 'equality' social norm. (from what I hear even people who are mentally not very well developed and would in Europe be send to a 'special' school are mixed together with all other students in the US). Did you feel this difference? I suppose that in the Atheneum you had mostly fair to good students around you, from middle- and upper class families (I'm not familiar with the school itself, just extrapolating from similar ones). That may have been different in a public school in a more urban environment. If you would have gone to a 'beroepsschool' downtown Antwerp, the contrast maybe wouldn't have been so big :) I'm not sure yet if one system is better than the other though. Empirically, it seems that somehow US universities come out on top in the end after all, considering that the quality and amount of research products is higher in the US than in Europe (even when restricted to EU-12 to account for the historical disadvantage Eastern Europe had and compared on a per-capita basis). I also have no reason to believe (haven't read any research) that the quality of life or psychological development is better or worse (for any objective measure thereof) for US vs European high school students. 10 years ago when Slashdot had several 3000+ post threads on Jon Katz' essays on bullying of geeks in US high schools (after the Columbine shootings), a popular complaint there was that the US system somehow exacerbated bullying because of this mixing of people that put the future convict in the same class room as the future professor. Reading those stories however didn't seem worse than what my high school (in Belgium) was like. Sorry for derailing the thread :)
    - elliottcarlson 16y ago
      It might not be completely on topic with the thread, but I (personally) don't think it's that far off. I had a couple of friends from my lagere school (like middle school and elementary wrapped in to one) which I attended at Lagere school Prinsstraat in downtown Antwerp that went to a beroupsschool (like a career college but starting younger during high school years). So I know there was a big difference in their lives both during their school years, and I would even venture to say their current lives. I think the atmosphere of a beroupsschool would be a lot more like the high school I went to in Colorado. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with universities from either side so I'm not sure how those would compare. On the note of bullying; My father is American while my mom is Belgian; when I was younger (from age 1 through age 12) we moved around a lot - from country to country and then from state to state. When my parents separated, I moved back to Belgium with my mom and I experienced tons of discrimination for being the "American". When I moved to the States at the age of 14/15, I was discriminated for being the "Belgian". I don't think there was much difference in that aspect at least form my personal experience. In the end I think the educational system in the US has a lot of room for improvement, and as it was 15 years ago, the material being taught was at least 2 years behind the material I was being taught back in Belgium.
elliottcarlson 16y ago
Just to add on to my original post - even with a GED I have been quite successful as a developer and can't complain about where I am or the salary I make. I am pretty sure that it's pure luck that my hobby while growing up became an industry I could be good in - I'm not sure if my GED would have gotten me as far otherwise.

michaelhart 16y ago

I hate it that the first thing you got to experience in the US was our crummy education system. My condolences. :(

elliottcarlson 16y ago
Well it gives me some perspective as what to expect when I send my own (future) kids off to school. Hopefully I will be able to teach them things to offset that.

roel_v 16y ago

Sophomore year, that's 2nd year of high school, right? What age was that? You had spend 2 years at a Belgian 'high school' (in the sense of 'secundair onderwijs', not 'hogeschool' :) ) ? Do you mind telling what program you followed in Belgium (I assume 'ASO', was it Latin-Mathematics, Latin-Greek, Economics, ...) ? Did you go to a public or private high school in the US? In a city or more rural? (Sorry for the questioning, I have a strange abstract interest in comparing educational systems across borders :) )

elliottcarlson 16y ago
You are correct in assuming Latin-Mathematics :) When I moved to the US I attended a public high school in Denver, CO (somewhat city), and back in Belgium I attended Atheneum van Deurne. I was 14/15 when I moved to the States. I don't mind the questions :) A little hard to remember as it's been 16 years now, but would be happy to share.
- roel_v 16y ago
  Thanks. My understanding is that it's hard to compare US secondary education to European-style because in the US there is very little (maybe even no?) differentiation between students and material taught, out of an 'equality' social norm. (from what I hear even people who are mentally not very well developed and would in Europe be send to a 'special' school are mixed together with all other students in the US). Did you feel this difference? I suppose that in the Atheneum you had mostly fair to good students around you, from middle- and upper class families (I'm not familiar with the school itself, just extrapolating from similar ones). That may have been different in a public school in a more urban environment. If you would have gone to a 'beroepsschool' downtown Antwerp, the contrast maybe wouldn't have been so big :) I'm not sure yet if one system is better than the other though. Empirically, it seems that somehow US universities come out on top in the end after all, considering that the quality and amount of research products is higher in the US than in Europe (even when restricted to EU-12 to account for the historical disadvantage Eastern Europe had and compared on a per-capita basis). I also have no reason to believe (haven't read any research) that the quality of life or psychological development is better or worse (for any objective measure thereof) for US vs European high school students. 10 years ago when Slashdot had several 3000+ post threads on Jon Katz' essays on bullying of geeks in US high schools (after the Columbine shootings), a popular complaint there was that the US system somehow exacerbated bullying because of this mixing of people that put the future convict in the same class room as the future professor. Reading those stories however didn't seem worse than what my high school (in Belgium) was like. Sorry for derailing the thread :)
  - elliottcarlson 16y ago
    It might not be completely on topic with the thread, but I (personally) don't think it's that far off. I had a couple of friends from my lagere school (like middle school and elementary wrapped in to one) which I attended at Lagere school Prinsstraat in downtown Antwerp that went to a beroupsschool (like a career college but starting younger during high school years). So I know there was a big difference in their lives both during their school years, and I would even venture to say their current lives. I think the atmosphere of a beroupsschool would be a lot more like the high school I went to in Colorado. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with universities from either side so I'm not sure how those would compare. On the note of bullying; My father is American while my mom is Belgian; when I was younger (from age 1 through age 12) we moved around a lot - from country to country and then from state to state. When my parents separated, I moved back to Belgium with my mom and I experienced tons of discrimination for being the "American". When I moved to the States at the age of 14/15, I was discriminated for being the "Belgian". I don't think there was much difference in that aspect at least form my personal experience. In the end I think the educational system in the US has a lot of room for improvement, and as it was 15 years ago, the material being taught was at least 2 years behind the material I was being taught back in Belgium.

elliottcarlson 16y ago

Just to add on to my original post - even with a GED I have been quite successful as a developer and can't complain about where I am or the salary I make. I am pretty sure that it's pure luck that my hobby while growing up became an industry I could be good in - I'm not sure if my GED would have gotten me as far otherwise.