3 ms·

Generally I agree with this thread of advice, but I’m a little fed up with people constantly asserting or implying that coding is the easy part, and culture is

Generally I agree with this thread of advice, but I’m a little fed up with people constantly asserting or implying that coding is the easy part, and culture is the super hard part. Get a grip. Coding is a challenge for junior developers. I see nothing constructive in spreading this idea. Not only is it nonsense, it seems to further the stereotype that programmers are all academically smart and socially incompetent. Edit: Please see Camille Fournier’s earlier take on this, as she says it better than me: https://mobile.twitter.com/skamille/status/1004731136562561025 https://mobile.twitter.com/skamille/status/10047311365625610...

oarabbus_ 8y ago
It also furthers the notion that "coding is easy" and if it doesn't come easy to you then you simply aren't a good programmer and will never be one.
- mesozoic 8y ago
  I think this really means that while coding is hard it is the fun thing, it is a hard thing that is fun to do and easily can lead to flow states which we interpret as "fun". That's great, as you advance in your career though it turns out many times coding isn't the most valuable thing you can be doing with your time but rather things like explaining, teaching, guiding. Things that aren't so easily defined as fun. So coding is easy not as in the simple vs difficult way but in the "easy going" way.
rurp 8y ago
I definitely agree with this and want to add that coding _well_ is difficult for people of all experience levels, it's not something developers get nailed down their first couple years of working and then have forever. But producing excellent code that is easy to work with can help with the culture part. I've worked with very knowledgeable and experienced engineers that could crank out plenty of buggy and convoluted code that caused other people headaches. Writing clean and well designed code makes coworkers lives easier.
RyanOD 8y ago
I would argue "hard" is relative and every job has aspects that are "hard" or "easy" depending on the individual. While I appreciate this thread seed, to point to either set and label it seems arbitrary.
nunez 8y ago
it's not so much that coding is easy; it's more that coding is easier than obtaining the soft skills that are often present amongst senior engineers
commandlinefan 8y ago
> coding is the easy part, and culture is the super hard part. This actually epitomizes what I've found to be my biggest frustration as a developer: "it would be super helpful if, in addition to doing all the computer stuff, you could do all the other stuff as well so I could just not do anything but still get paid."
mathgladiator 8y ago
It is kind of annoying, but I have a different viewpoint for why code is actually a small part. For me, I could write all the code that my entire team produces, but I am outmatched in the eyes and minds to turn things on operationally. That is, roll it all out and do investigations into problems. So, my gut is that this trope is based on context. My context is as an infrastructure service provider. Thus, my big problem is operations. I imagine if one does UI, then that is 80% people problem. If the problem is science, then the problem is the code and the science. I think what we are seeing is the "Pareto principle" played out in different arenas
- yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
  The explicit context here is that of the junior developer role.
amrx431 8y ago
> Coding is a challenge for junior developers. I personally agree. The amount of good ideas and good software I see everyday, makes me wonder how the heck did people design and implement these beauties. I get depressed all the time since I am unable to conjure up such beautiful design and code for a problem. I think this is affecting me mentally. Does anyone have any advice for me?
- Doxin 8y ago
  keep in mind that beautiful code often a) isn't and b) took years of refinement to end up the way it is now. Don't fret if your first prototype isn't the prettiest thing on earth, Just keep refining it until it's acceptable for your purpose.

oarabbus_ 8y ago

It also furthers the notion that "coding is easy" and if it doesn't come easy to you then you simply aren't a good programmer and will never be one.

mesozoic 8y ago
I think this really means that while coding is hard it is the fun thing, it is a hard thing that is fun to do and easily can lead to flow states which we interpret as "fun". That's great, as you advance in your career though it turns out many times coding isn't the most valuable thing you can be doing with your time but rather things like explaining, teaching, guiding. Things that aren't so easily defined as fun. So coding is easy not as in the simple vs difficult way but in the "easy going" way.

rurp 8y ago

I definitely agree with this and want to add that coding _well_ is difficult for people of all experience levels, it's not something developers get nailed down their first couple years of working and then have forever. But producing excellent code that is easy to work with can help with the culture part. I've worked with very knowledgeable and experienced engineers that could crank out plenty of buggy and convoluted code that caused other people headaches. Writing clean and well designed code makes coworkers lives easier.

RyanOD 8y ago

I would argue "hard" is relative and every job has aspects that are "hard" or "easy" depending on the individual. While I appreciate this thread seed, to point to either set and label it seems arbitrary.

nunez 8y ago

it's not so much that coding is easy; it's more that coding is easier than obtaining the soft skills that are often present amongst senior engineers

commandlinefan 8y ago

> coding is the easy part, and culture is the super hard part. This actually epitomizes what I've found to be my biggest frustration as a developer: "it would be super helpful if, in addition to doing all the computer stuff, you could do all the other stuff as well so I could just not do anything but still get paid."

mathgladiator 8y ago

It is kind of annoying, but I have a different viewpoint for why code is actually a small part. For me, I could write all the code that my entire team produces, but I am outmatched in the eyes and minds to turn things on operationally. That is, roll it all out and do investigations into problems. So, my gut is that this trope is based on context. My context is as an infrastructure service provider. Thus, my big problem is operations. I imagine if one does UI, then that is 80% people problem. If the problem is science, then the problem is the code and the science. I think what we are seeing is the "Pareto principle" played out in different arenas

yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
The explicit context here is that of the junior developer role.

amrx431 8y ago

> Coding is a challenge for junior developers. I personally agree. The amount of good ideas and good software I see everyday, makes me wonder how the heck did people design and implement these beauties. I get depressed all the time since I am unable to conjure up such beautiful design and code for a problem. I think this is affecting me mentally. Does anyone have any advice for me?

Doxin 8y ago
keep in mind that beautiful code often a) isn't and b) took years of refinement to end up the way it is now. Don't fret if your first prototype isn't the prettiest thing on earth, Just keep refining it until it's acceptable for your purpose.