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The good news for Developers is that native smartphone apps will start disappearing over the next 5-10 years in favor of WebAssembly apps (no more annoying app

The good news for Developers is that native smartphone apps will start disappearing over the next 5-10 years in favor of WebAssembly apps (no more annoying app updates!) and we'll see a full swing back to a browser-based Internet. [EDIT: Not implying Apple will support wasm, but their plateau enables other wasm-first platforms to emerge. Content providers will give away $100 phones to secure subscription revenue.]

jf- 8y ago
Web assembly is definitely a threat to apple’s app revenues, though maybe not an existential one. Given that apple are already experiencing a slowdown, and big names like Netflix are trying to avoid the “apple tax”, I’d expect to see them fight this tooth and nail. Even to the extent of blocking wasm on some sort of security grounds, wether valid or not.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  Which is not going to work. "You can browse everything... except everything you want" is not going to be a popular USP.
  - jf- 8y ago
    Maybe so, but holding out is a strategy that could only be pursued by the bigger players, the smaller ones would have to cave and release via the App Store.
- nomel 8y ago
  > I’d expect to see them fight this tooth and nail. Even to the extent of blocking wasm on some sort of security grounds, wether valid or not. Do you have an example of precedence that supports this extremely user hostile view of Apple?
  - jf- 8y ago
    PWA support. Safari was late to the party, and iOS doesn’t make adding a PWA intuitive at all.
- matchagaucho 8y ago
  Microsoft fought rich browser standards in favor of their own (ActiveX, Silverlight) and ultimately lost that battle.
  - wvenable 8y ago
    Apple fought rich browser standards in favour of app store which provides an interface for installing applications as easy as web browsing and won that battle. And they will continue to win that battle because they provide discoverability, monitization, hosting, and full device access and performance. The web alone can't compete against that.
Hydraulix989 8y ago
WebAssembly is native code targeted for and running in a browser virtual machine. The difference between JavaScript and WebAssembly is that there is a machine abstraction.
- illegalsmile 8y ago
  As someone wishing to change careers is moving into Wasm development a solid move? I've been hearing more about it over the last six months but I don't have much knowledge in the browser application arena.
  - Hydraulix989 8y ago
    I think it’s still too early. Right now, JavaScript is the language of choice because it’s easy to prototype in and more importantly hire developers for. I don’t see any startups putting in the massive costs in terms of time and labor to port their JS codebases to Rust any time soon. Slack doesn’t get THAT much better than it is now in JS. Wasm might be used in the future for easy cross platform mobile apps and desktop apps, but for web, unless you’re doing something high performance like 3D gaming, it doesn’t really matter.
    - illegalsmile 8y ago
      Thank you for the information!
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
wvenable 8y ago
WebAssembly isn't a magic bullet. The UI toolkit is the browser (DOM/HTML/CSS) and that's where everything will live and die. Whether the app is executing JavaScript or WebAssembly ultimately doesn't matter that much. Apple still has to provide a solid web browser for mobile internet and they don't seem to be too keen on that anymore. So I'm not sure where your optimism is coming from. Also, no more annoying app updates? Web apps are even worse with no way to hold onto on old versions! You're updating every time you open the app. Are app updates really that annoying?
- matchagaucho 8y ago
  Properly structured assemblies should only download incremental dependencies. Perhaps an RFC is required for secure background updates.
  - wvenable 8y ago
    Do actually ever notice your regular mobile apps updating? I don't. It happens automatically in the background when I'm connected to Wifi. If anything, mobile apps are worse as I don't control the time of the download at all.
    - matchagaucho 8y ago
      It's not just updates. Having to install a one-time use app to book an airline or hotel reservation is a dated concept.
      - wvenable 8y ago
        So you want developers to support a platform where their app is used only once?!? I think they'd prefer native 100x over web applications for that reason alone!
        matchagaucho 8y ago
        A simple web app is sufficient for most online transactions today. Even better if that web app can directly access GPU and interact with the hardware more natively using Javascript. Nothing for the end user to install. Just use the next-gen mobile browser.
wvenable 8y ago
> Not implying Apple will support wasm, but their plateau enables other wasm-first platforms to emerge. Content providers will give away $100 phones to secure subscription revenue. I don't understand the former has to do with latter. It would make more sense for content providers to go native than to use WASM if they are providing the hardware. If content providers are giving away hardware they'd want it completely locked down -- not open. Also, Apple's plateau exists because the market is saturated. Everybody already has a smartphone how is there a market for yet another new platform?

jf- 8y ago

Web assembly is definitely a threat to apple’s app revenues, though maybe not an existential one. Given that apple are already experiencing a slowdown, and big names like Netflix are trying to avoid the “apple tax”, I’d expect to see them fight this tooth and nail. Even to the extent of blocking wasm on some sort of security grounds, wether valid or not.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
Which is not going to work. "You can browse everything... except everything you want" is not going to be a popular USP.
- jf- 8y ago
  Maybe so, but holding out is a strategy that could only be pursued by the bigger players, the smaller ones would have to cave and release via the App Store.
nomel 8y ago
> I’d expect to see them fight this tooth and nail. Even to the extent of blocking wasm on some sort of security grounds, wether valid or not. Do you have an example of precedence that supports this extremely user hostile view of Apple?
- jf- 8y ago
  PWA support. Safari was late to the party, and iOS doesn’t make adding a PWA intuitive at all.
matchagaucho 8y ago
Microsoft fought rich browser standards in favor of their own (ActiveX, Silverlight) and ultimately lost that battle.
- wvenable 8y ago
  Apple fought rich browser standards in favour of app store which provides an interface for installing applications as easy as web browsing and won that battle. And they will continue to win that battle because they provide discoverability, monitization, hosting, and full device access and performance. The web alone can't compete against that.

Hydraulix989 8y ago

WebAssembly is native code targeted for and running in a browser virtual machine. The difference between JavaScript and WebAssembly is that there is a machine abstraction.

illegalsmile 8y ago
As someone wishing to change careers is moving into Wasm development a solid move? I've been hearing more about it over the last six months but I don't have much knowledge in the browser application arena.
- Hydraulix989 8y ago
  I think it’s still too early. Right now, JavaScript is the language of choice because it’s easy to prototype in and more importantly hire developers for. I don’t see any startups putting in the massive costs in terms of time and labor to port their JS codebases to Rust any time soon. Slack doesn’t get THAT much better than it is now in JS. Wasm might be used in the future for easy cross platform mobile apps and desktop apps, but for web, unless you’re doing something high performance like 3D gaming, it doesn’t really matter.
  - illegalsmile 8y ago
    Thank you for the information!

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

wvenable 8y ago

WebAssembly isn't a magic bullet. The UI toolkit is the browser (DOM/HTML/CSS) and that's where everything will live and die. Whether the app is executing JavaScript or WebAssembly ultimately doesn't matter that much. Apple still has to provide a solid web browser for mobile internet and they don't seem to be too keen on that anymore. So I'm not sure where your optimism is coming from. Also, no more annoying app updates? Web apps are even worse with no way to hold onto on old versions! You're updating every time you open the app. Are app updates really that annoying?

matchagaucho 8y ago
Properly structured assemblies should only download incremental dependencies. Perhaps an RFC is required for secure background updates.
- wvenable 8y ago
  Do actually ever notice your regular mobile apps updating? I don't. It happens automatically in the background when I'm connected to Wifi. If anything, mobile apps are worse as I don't control the time of the download at all.
  - matchagaucho 8y ago
    It's not just updates. Having to install a one-time use app to book an airline or hotel reservation is a dated concept.
    - wvenable 8y ago
      So you want developers to support a platform where their app is used only once?!? I think they'd prefer native 100x over web applications for that reason alone!
      - matchagaucho 8y ago
        A simple web app is sufficient for most online transactions today. Even better if that web app can directly access GPU and interact with the hardware more natively using Javascript. Nothing for the end user to install. Just use the next-gen mobile browser.

wvenable 8y ago

> Not implying Apple will support wasm, but their plateau enables other wasm-first platforms to emerge. Content providers will give away $100 phones to secure subscription revenue. I don't understand the former has to do with latter. It would make more sense for content providers to go native than to use WASM if they are providing the hardware. If content providers are giving away hardware they'd want it completely locked down -- not open. Also, Apple's plateau exists because the market is saturated. Everybody already has a smartphone how is there a market for yet another new platform?