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This piece is hilariously out of touch. “Middle-class staples like Williams & Sonoma, Coach, Lush, and an Apple store (along with the obligatory food court Sba

This piece is hilariously out of touch. “Middle-class staples like Williams & Sonoma, Coach, Lush, and an Apple store (along with the obligatory food court Sbarro) help account for $1.8B in annual sales.” Those are not middle class “staples” - the US middle class can not afford to shop at Williams Sonoma. Apple is a luxury or near-luxury brand, same with Coach.

swarnie_ 8y ago
Never heard of Williams Sonoma before, visiting their website gives me an idea as to why... "PAGE IS NOT AVAILABLE IN YOUR REGION TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS, We regret that due to technical challenges caused by new regulations in Europe, we can for the time being no longer accept orders from the European Union. If you reside in the UK you can continue to order from our UK websites or shop from our locations and partners."
- bluedino 8y ago
  It's a store full of high-end/overpriced (take your pick) pots and pans, small appliances, condiments and ingredients. $1299 personal espresso machine, $25 canister of hot chocolate mix, and $19 jars of whatever the trendy dip/topping is right now.
- ghaff 8y ago
  It's a high-ish end kitchen store chain (similar to Sur La Table). It tends to be in higher-end malls.
- beat 8y ago
  It's a fancy kitchen store for malls. The kind of place to go if you think a set of beautiful hammered copper French pans will make you a better cook, or you want a really Italian-looking espresso maker. Nice place to buy a serving dish for your mother-in-law. And yes, middle class people can afford to shop for luxury goods, and do so. It's not unusual to have a moderately expensive hobby.
- rconti 8y ago
  The Hater's Guide to the Williams Sonoma Catalog is probably all the context you need. https://adequateman.deadspin.com/the-2017-hater-s-guide-to-the-williams-sonoma-catalog-1821181135 https://adequateman.deadspin.com/the-2017-hater-s-guide-to-t...
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  You've never heard of them because they don't operate in your country, not because they blocked you from visiting their website from your country.
b_tterc_p 8y ago
That’s really just a semantic question over the definition of middle class. If it’s median income then sure, those brands are generally out of reach. However for many middle class might also refer to various tiers of purchasing power, in which middle class may represent something closer to the 70-90th percentile of incomes.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Spivak 8y ago
  What? The median income in the US this year was $60k which is plenty enough to shop at those stores. Lush's products are less than $15.
  - rconti 8y ago
    Right, but nobody NEEDS a bath bomb. It's like saying Voss water only costs $3 a bottle; anyone can afford that. Yes, literally, the homeless guy on the corner can AFFORD it, but that doesn't mean he's likely to make that choice.
    - dpark 8y ago
      The homeless guy on the corner isn't middle class. Middle class people commonly buy "unnecessary" things, even clear luxury items like Coach bags.
  - crushcrashcrush 8y ago
    $60k after taxes is what, $48k take home? After rent, gas, groceries, insurance, a car payment, what’s left? You certainly shouldn’t be shopping at any of those stores on that salary.
    - dpark 8y ago
      Depends a lot on where you live. I used to make less than that but lived quite well. If your rent and car payment are low, $4k/month could easily leave you > $1k/month to spend on "whatever". If you live in Silicon Valley and take home $4k/month, not so much.
sillyquiet 8y ago
what? Maybe we are working from different definitions of middle-class, but my family is decidedly middle-class and we shop at Apple and Williams & Sonoma - not often admittedly, but often enough.
- aklemm 8y ago
  "my family is decidedly middle-class" Why are you so sure? What are the numbers? It's possible you're in a middle income bracket within a rich region, but if you're shopping at Apple and Williams Sonoma on the regular, I'd guess that puts you in the top 20%. I guess we have to define middle class too...maybe the 25%-75% household income bracket?
  - Spivak 8y ago
    I think they could be pretty darn sure if their income was between $55k and $65k since that's right around the median.
    - ggggtez 8y ago
      The root of the problem of definition here is that there is no concrete definition of "middle class". Median income is related, but not required to be middle class. Besides, in San Francisco, making less than $59k per year is considered poverty level, and $100k+ is still "low income" [0]. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44725026 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44725026
  - michaelt 8y ago
    According to https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1237182.html https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1237182.html "In the US, we have a rule: to describe a person as "lower class" is an insult; less obviously, to describe them as "upper class" is as well. To describe something as "lower class" or "upper class" is to denigrate it, and to attribute a "lower class" or "upper class" thing to some one is to denigrate them. It is the designation "middle class", alone, which is virtuous – a fact which explains in a nutshell why, famously, all Americans arrogate the term to themselves."
Retra 8y ago
When I was making ~60K/yr, I had no trouble spending $2K on a laptop. So what is your frame of reference here? Apple might be a "luxury brand", but it isn't yacht shopping.
- awaywopassd 8y ago
  When I was making $60K, my laptop cost about $500. So did my other co-workers who made similar amount. It was exception for anyone to by $1K+ laptop and then everyone talked about how there $500 laptop was faster than that.
  - Retra 8y ago
    I'm doing well enough with that same laptop and my budget, so save the spending advice for someone who needs it. This is a pointless diversion with so little context.
- Glyptodon 8y ago
  Sure, it's possible to buy a $2k laptop at that salary, but it's sure not a thoughtless routine purchase. That said, lots of people who financially really shouldn't do buy Apple products. On the other hand I don't know any honestly middle class people who shop at Williams Sonoma with the possible exclusion of special gifts maybe for a wedding or anniversary or some other rare special occasion.
  - Retra 8y ago
    >On the other hand I don't know any honestly middle class people who shop at Williams Sonoma with the possible exclusion of special gifts maybe for a wedding or anniversary or some other rare special occasion. Shopping occasionally is still shopping. Plenty of people have run businesses off of gift and special occasion spending. Or just occasional spending in general. None of this is out of the range of the middle class. Almost anything cheaper than a child is affordable to the middle class. >lots of people who financially really shouldn't do buy Apple products. That only strengthens the point that middle class earners are spending their money there.
fullshark 8y ago
There's a lot more here to take issue with in this piece, like how thin its "Is this an opportunity for tech start ups" section is which is like a medium tech post self-parody with no real concrete ideas or proposals.
- NorthOf33rd 8y ago
  I laughed out loud at "mini-brand," as if the norm for a company in the mind of Silicon Valley is so massive that anything under 2mm/yr in revenue is "mini." "I'm not an independent proprietor, I'm a mini-mogul of a micro-barbershop." vomit.
atwebb 8y ago
For some of them I'm baffled at how they still exist. Williams and Sonoma isn't a unique selection and quality and price can be easily found elsewhere. While I know I'm not the target market, it's still hard to grasp.
- wbond 8y ago
  While electrics (Breville, etc) can be found on Amazon, W&S can generally be trusted to have decent quality dinnerware and linens. My experience of trying to buy stuff like that on Amazon has been mostly shoddy quality from unknown brands.
  - atwebb 8y ago
    I'd say Bed Bath and Beyond, Macy's, or Target have similar quality off the top of my head, Amazon isn't the only game in town. W&S reminds me of JC Penny/Goldsmiths, just for a new generation.
ggggtez 8y ago
Middle class does not mean "median income". I don't know why anyone below is suggesting that. It's a range, between lower and upper. Someone can make $200k+ per year for a family of 5 and still be "middle class" and I don't think anyone would be shocked if they owned an iPhone. Edit: Specifically, "middle class" is not defined with respect to the nation's income. It's a loose definition based on job/lifestyle/purchasing power, which are correlated to income, but not strictly defined by it.
kens 8y ago
This article kind of bothers me with its elitist attitude; it seems to view anything below upper-middle class as aesthetically offensive. And I don't really like the view that corporate stores are inherently good and mom-and-pop stores are bad. I agree with the article as far as economics, but shopping at a place more downscale than Williams and Sonoma shouldn't be viewed as a shameful thing. "Mall of Shame", really?
- crushcrashcrush 8y ago
  100% - these are the kind of texts that echo stentiments that eventually lead to class warfare.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  When people define their identities and place in the world by their consumption of branded products, and look down on people who shop "below" them, it is a sure sign that we need to end this cult of consumerism.
nunez 8y ago
Coach went downmarket, IMO

swarnie_ 8y ago

Never heard of Williams Sonoma before, visiting their website gives me an idea as to why... "PAGE IS NOT AVAILABLE IN YOUR REGION TO OUR VALUED CUSTOMERS, We regret that due to technical challenges caused by new regulations in Europe, we can for the time being no longer accept orders from the European Union. If you reside in the UK you can continue to order from our UK websites or shop from our locations and partners."

bluedino 8y ago
It's a store full of high-end/overpriced (take your pick) pots and pans, small appliances, condiments and ingredients. $1299 personal espresso machine, $25 canister of hot chocolate mix, and $19 jars of whatever the trendy dip/topping is right now.
ghaff 8y ago
It's a high-ish end kitchen store chain (similar to Sur La Table). It tends to be in higher-end malls.
beat 8y ago
It's a fancy kitchen store for malls. The kind of place to go if you think a set of beautiful hammered copper French pans will make you a better cook, or you want a really Italian-looking espresso maker. Nice place to buy a serving dish for your mother-in-law. And yes, middle class people can afford to shop for luxury goods, and do so. It's not unusual to have a moderately expensive hobby.
rconti 8y ago
The Hater's Guide to the Williams Sonoma Catalog is probably all the context you need. https://adequateman.deadspin.com/the-2017-hater-s-guide-to-the-williams-sonoma-catalog-1821181135 https://adequateman.deadspin.com/the-2017-hater-s-guide-to-t...
oh_sigh 8y ago
You've never heard of them because they don't operate in your country, not because they blocked you from visiting their website from your country.

b_tterc_p 8y ago

That’s really just a semantic question over the definition of middle class. If it’s median income then sure, those brands are generally out of reach. However for many middle class might also refer to various tiers of purchasing power, in which middle class may represent something closer to the 70-90th percentile of incomes.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Spivak 8y ago
What? The median income in the US this year was $60k which is plenty enough to shop at those stores. Lush's products are less than $15.
- rconti 8y ago
  Right, but nobody NEEDS a bath bomb. It's like saying Voss water only costs $3 a bottle; anyone can afford that. Yes, literally, the homeless guy on the corner can AFFORD it, but that doesn't mean he's likely to make that choice.
  - dpark 8y ago
    The homeless guy on the corner isn't middle class. Middle class people commonly buy "unnecessary" things, even clear luxury items like Coach bags.
- crushcrashcrush 8y ago
  $60k after taxes is what, $48k take home? After rent, gas, groceries, insurance, a car payment, what’s left? You certainly shouldn’t be shopping at any of those stores on that salary.
  - dpark 8y ago
    Depends a lot on where you live. I used to make less than that but lived quite well. If your rent and car payment are low, $4k/month could easily leave you > $1k/month to spend on "whatever". If you live in Silicon Valley and take home $4k/month, not so much.

sillyquiet 8y ago

what? Maybe we are working from different definitions of middle-class, but my family is decidedly middle-class and we shop at Apple and Williams & Sonoma - not often admittedly, but often enough.

aklemm 8y ago
"my family is decidedly middle-class" Why are you so sure? What are the numbers? It's possible you're in a middle income bracket within a rich region, but if you're shopping at Apple and Williams Sonoma on the regular, I'd guess that puts you in the top 20%. I guess we have to define middle class too...maybe the 25%-75% household income bracket?
- Spivak 8y ago
  I think they could be pretty darn sure if their income was between $55k and $65k since that's right around the median.
  - ggggtez 8y ago
    The root of the problem of definition here is that there is no concrete definition of "middle class". Median income is related, but not required to be middle class. Besides, in San Francisco, making less than $59k per year is considered poverty level, and $100k+ is still "low income" [0]. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44725026 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44725026
- michaelt 8y ago
  According to https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1237182.html https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1237182.html "In the US, we have a rule: to describe a person as "lower class" is an insult; less obviously, to describe them as "upper class" is as well. To describe something as "lower class" or "upper class" is to denigrate it, and to attribute a "lower class" or "upper class" thing to some one is to denigrate them. It is the designation "middle class", alone, which is virtuous – a fact which explains in a nutshell why, famously, all Americans arrogate the term to themselves."

Retra 8y ago

When I was making ~60K/yr, I had no trouble spending $2K on a laptop. So what is your frame of reference here? Apple might be a "luxury brand", but it isn't yacht shopping.

awaywopassd 8y ago
When I was making $60K, my laptop cost about $500. So did my other co-workers who made similar amount. It was exception for anyone to by $1K+ laptop and then everyone talked about how there $500 laptop was faster than that.
- Retra 8y ago
  I'm doing well enough with that same laptop and my budget, so save the spending advice for someone who needs it. This is a pointless diversion with so little context.
Glyptodon 8y ago
Sure, it's possible to buy a $2k laptop at that salary, but it's sure not a thoughtless routine purchase. That said, lots of people who financially really shouldn't do buy Apple products. On the other hand I don't know any honestly middle class people who shop at Williams Sonoma with the possible exclusion of special gifts maybe for a wedding or anniversary or some other rare special occasion.
- Retra 8y ago
  >On the other hand I don't know any honestly middle class people who shop at Williams Sonoma with the possible exclusion of special gifts maybe for a wedding or anniversary or some other rare special occasion. Shopping occasionally is still shopping. Plenty of people have run businesses off of gift and special occasion spending. Or just occasional spending in general. None of this is out of the range of the middle class. Almost anything cheaper than a child is affordable to the middle class. >lots of people who financially really shouldn't do buy Apple products. That only strengthens the point that middle class earners are spending their money there.

fullshark 8y ago

There's a lot more here to take issue with in this piece, like how thin its "Is this an opportunity for tech start ups" section is which is like a medium tech post self-parody with no real concrete ideas or proposals.

NorthOf33rd 8y ago
I laughed out loud at "mini-brand," as if the norm for a company in the mind of Silicon Valley is so massive that anything under 2mm/yr in revenue is "mini." "I'm not an independent proprietor, I'm a mini-mogul of a micro-barbershop." vomit.

atwebb 8y ago

For some of them I'm baffled at how they still exist. Williams and Sonoma isn't a unique selection and quality and price can be easily found elsewhere. While I know I'm not the target market, it's still hard to grasp.

wbond 8y ago
While electrics (Breville, etc) can be found on Amazon, W&S can generally be trusted to have decent quality dinnerware and linens. My experience of trying to buy stuff like that on Amazon has been mostly shoddy quality from unknown brands.
- atwebb 8y ago
  I'd say Bed Bath and Beyond, Macy's, or Target have similar quality off the top of my head, Amazon isn't the only game in town. W&S reminds me of JC Penny/Goldsmiths, just for a new generation.

ggggtez 8y ago

Middle class does not mean "median income". I don't know why anyone below is suggesting that. It's a range, between lower and upper. Someone can make $200k+ per year for a family of 5 and still be "middle class" and I don't think anyone would be shocked if they owned an iPhone. Edit: Specifically, "middle class" is not defined with respect to the nation's income. It's a loose definition based on job/lifestyle/purchasing power, which are correlated to income, but not strictly defined by it.

kens 8y ago

This article kind of bothers me with its elitist attitude; it seems to view anything below upper-middle class as aesthetically offensive. And I don't really like the view that corporate stores are inherently good and mom-and-pop stores are bad. I agree with the article as far as economics, but shopping at a place more downscale than Williams and Sonoma shouldn't be viewed as a shameful thing. "Mall of Shame", really?

crushcrashcrush 8y ago
100% - these are the kind of texts that echo stentiments that eventually lead to class warfare.
KozmoNau7 8y ago
When people define their identities and place in the world by their consumption of branded products, and look down on people who shop "below" them, it is a sure sign that we need to end this cult of consumerism.

nunez 8y ago

Coach went downmarket, IMO