7 ms·

The ABCs of Jacobin

100 points by magda_wang 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Ar-Curunir 8y ago
This article gives me the feeling that the folks who run Jacobin have a "holier-than-thou" attitude towards the rest of the left. I get the feeling that they look down upon more idealistic leftists, and think of themselves as pragmatic and grounded, a quality they deem that the rest of the left lacks. Might be the way the article is written (it seems to try hard to portray Jacobson's success as a demonstration of capitalism's successes), but there definitely seems to be an underlying kernel of truth. Turns me off of Jacobin even more.
- wazoox 8y ago
  Jacobin is really good and Catalyst, its long form companion publication, is even better. They're certainly surprisingly radical for the US; they're "leftists" in the European sense (not in the US sense, where a light-pink centrist such as Bernie Sanders is seen as some sort of rabid Bolshevik by many).
  - adwhit 8y ago
    I had to do a double-take here, I was thinking "I don't think Bernie is all that radical, but I wouldn't describe him as center-right". But of course the US gets the colors backwards.
- tuxxy 8y ago
  A large portion of the radical left feels this way about Jacobin. I enjoy some of their articles, but it doesn't come without critique. Famously, a post-leftist, anarchist organization called "Crimethinc" published an essay called "Your Politics Are Boring As Fuck"[0] which addressed some of the problems with the attitudes of "Jacobin Leftists". I really like this quote: > The truth is, your politics are boring to them because they really are irrelevant. They know that your antiquated styles of protest — your marches, hand held signs, and gatherings — are now powerless to effect real change because they have become such a predictable part of the status quo. They know that your post-Marxist jargon is off-putting because it really is a language of mere academic dispute, not a weapon capable of undermining systems of control. They know that your infighting, your splinter groups and endless quarrels over ephemeral theories can never effect any real change in the world they experience from day to day. They know that no matter who is in office, what laws are on the books, what “ism”s the intellectuals march under, the content of their lives will remain the same. They — we — know that our boredom is proof that these “politics” are not the key to any real transformation of life. For our lives are boring enough already! 0. https://crimethinc.com/2000/09/11/your-politics-are-boring-as-fuck https://crimethinc.com/2000/09/11/your-politics-are-boring-a...
  - rustyboy 8y ago
    While I agree with Crimethinc and that quote, I can't seem to get into their writing anymore. Most of their writing comes across as defeatist or exhausting, but it's understandable because they've been promoting leftist ideals for decades now while the world slides into more and more authoritarianism.
    - tuxxy 8y ago
      Perhaps so, but I see the writing as more of a "The status quo will continue until we take action." I think there is something to be said about defeatism in this regard. Things absolutely will not change until there is action. Crimethinc is simply stating the obvious -- there is no action. Lately, The Invisible Committee's books have kept me very enthusiastic. If you haven't read those yet (specifically, "Now" and "The Coming Insurrection") you've been missing out. For anyone else who is not a radical leftist, there are some interesting takes on how technology has affected human interaction. I see it as an interesting read for many people in tech.
      - rustyboy 8y ago
        I havn't read the books, thanks for the recommendations i'll check them out. Crimethinc/AdBusters has seem to be more about fostering counter culture rather than interesting leftist thought not to say one's more important than the other, but seeing even the most radical members of our party still consumed by selfies and starbucks makes me really dissapointed. Crimethinc taught me to about Buy Nothing Day, how to make my own soap, and go vegan/local.
  - hopler 8y ago
    Does crimethinc do anything more impactful than write screeds lie Jacobin does?
  - thatfrenchguy 8y ago
    "Published in 2000"
- ahartmetz 8y ago
  IMO, more ethics of responsibility instead of ethics of conviction is exactly what is needed. Because "right-think" does not improve people's lives, but results do. They have every right to feel superior over lazy thinkers who just subscribe to some currently fashionable belief system including the crazy parts.
yellowbuilding 8y ago
Jacobin is one sharp publication. Baskar runs a tight ship, and somehow the books are even in order! Who would have thought?
ghostcluster 8y ago
To name your magazine after the frenzied murderous excess of the French Revolution reminds me of how rabidly violent the far left is. And when we have so many examples of radical collectivism leading to mass suffering (much of humanity's gains in the last 40 years can be traced to China's rejection of it in the late 1970s), and an intellectual foundation based on patently false dogma like Marx's 'labor theory of value'.. I wish the left would adopt some new role models and theory based on reality
- dang 8y ago
  Please keep generic ideological flamewar off this site. I realize the article is tempting in that direction, but there's also an interesting story there and plenty of specifics. "Frenzied murderous excess" of whoever is the last thing the internet has anything new to say about, and in addition to being tediously repetitive, these discussions get hostile very quickly. Those are two reasons why they're off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - ghostcluster 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin - the second paragraph talks about the guillotining of 17,000 political opponents. I apologize if my comment seemed too ideological, but I think it's fair to assert that they're a provocative thing to name your magazine after, and the piece mentions Jacobin's featuring the guillotine as well.
    - dang 8y ago
      The presence of a provocation doesn't mean we need to get provoked.
      - ghostcluster 8y ago
        The magazine sells guillotine posters: https://jacobinmag.com/store/product/1 https://jacobinmag.com/store/product/1
abvdasker 8y ago
The quality and depth of the writing in Jacobin's stories is what keeps me coming back. They go very in-depth in each story and aren't afraid to use a diction that's probably a bit more academic than the average American is comfortable with. Each piece is exactly as long as it needs to be, and they don't dumb down the content or try to soften their ideological views the way most mainstream publications do. I especially love that the subject matter is political but not reactionary, taking a longer view of social and economic issues rather than just producing articles focused solely on the outrage of the week. Only the writing in The New Yorker is better.
- shanghaiaway 8y ago
  It's a leftist publication, of course it's not reactionary. It's Marxist, of course it uses obscure language.
  - randallsquared 8y ago
    They meant "reactive". (I also thought that "Reacting to the past rather than anticipating the future, not predictive." was one definition of reactionary, but not according to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reactive https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reactive and https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reactionary https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reactionary ).
    - uxp100 8y ago
      I thought so too, but at the very least it is confusing in this context.
- zozbot123 8y ago
  > I especially love that the subject matter is political but not reactionary And for those who do like reactionary subject matter, there is a nice alternative publication - which is of course named Jacobite https://jacobitemag.com/ https://jacobitemag.com/
  - 8y ago
Dowwie 8y ago
While I think it is important to consider arguments across the entire political spectrum, reading Jacobin takes effort. It promotes a fictional world view where a command and control society makes purely altruistic, utilitarian decisions to maximize economic and social equality. Good and evil are too quickly ascribed to actors without consideration of attribution error. There is too much black and white thinking..
- djrobstep 8y ago
  If your version of "across the political spectrum" stops short of democratic socialism, perhaps it's time to try harder to expand your mind.
  - testrun 8y ago
    What is democratic socialism?
    - djrobstep 8y ago
      If you'd like to find out more I can recommend a great magazine.
  - rayiner 8y ago
    What people call “democratic socialism” is more accurately called “welfare capitalism” (where the means of production remain private). That’s not what Jacobin espouses.
    - orhmeh09 8y ago
      That describes social democracy. I found an explanation of the differences on the magazine’s website: https://jacobinmag.com/2018/08/democratic-socialism-social-democracy-nordic-countries https://jacobinmag.com/2018/08/democratic-socialism-social-d...
    - bitwize 8y ago
      You're thinking of "social democracy". Democratic socialism is where the people decide how resources are to be allocated, not the elite few. See: https://jacobinmag.com/2018/07/democratic-socialism-bernie-sanders-social-democracy-alexandria-ocasio-cortez https://jacobinmag.com/2018/07/democratic-socialism-bernie-s...
barking 8y ago
I googled Jacobin and on the results noticed a tweet from the Jacobin account Angela Merkel has resigned as CDU leader. Her failed promises of "prosperity for all" are leading to the disintegration of the traditional mass parties. Reads bit sacred scripturey to me, as in Marx tells us in chapter X verse XX I wonder if they address one another as comrade?
- geofft 8y ago
  And? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make / what you're trying to communicate.
- adwhit 8y ago
  The left regularly address each other as "comrade", albeit sometimes a little tongue-in-cheek. Solidarity is an important and necessary part of the culture, given the odds are heavily stacked against them.
fancyfish 8y ago
The graphic design of Jacobin is what always stands out to me. There is sort of a retro playful feel to the cover art and images inside. And a mix of different typefaces from article to article. Not to mention the articles themselves are printed on a variety of paper types within a single issue, from glossy and thin to thicker with a fold-out. One of the few print magazines where I enjoy physically flipping through the pages. https://coverjunkie.com/cover-categories/best-of-the-rest/jacobin-3/ https://coverjunkie.com/cover-categories/best-of-the-rest/ja...

100 points by magda_wang 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

This article gives me the feeling that the folks who run Jacobin have a "holier-than-thou" attitude towards the rest of the left. I get the feeling that they look down upon more idealistic leftists, and think of themselves as pragmatic and grounded, a quality they deem that the rest of the left lacks. Might be the way the article is written (it seems to try hard to portray Jacobson's success as a demonstration of capitalism's successes), but there definitely seems to be an underlying kernel of truth. Turns me off of Jacobin even more.

wazoox 8y ago
Jacobin is really good and Catalyst, its long form companion publication, is even better. They're certainly surprisingly radical for the US; they're "leftists" in the European sense (not in the US sense, where a light-pink centrist such as Bernie Sanders is seen as some sort of rabid Bolshevik by many).
- adwhit 8y ago
  I had to do a double-take here, I was thinking "I don't think Bernie is all that radical, but I wouldn't describe him as center-right". But of course the US gets the colors backwards.
tuxxy 8y ago
A large portion of the radical left feels this way about Jacobin. I enjoy some of their articles, but it doesn't come without critique. Famously, a post-leftist, anarchist organization called "Crimethinc" published an essay called "Your Politics Are Boring As Fuck"[0] which addressed some of the problems with the attitudes of "Jacobin Leftists". I really like this quote: > The truth is, your politics are boring to them because they really are irrelevant. They know that your antiquated styles of protest — your marches, hand held signs, and gatherings — are now powerless to effect real change because they have become such a predictable part of the status quo. They know that your post-Marxist jargon is off-putting because it really is a language of mere academic dispute, not a weapon capable of undermining systems of control. They know that your infighting, your splinter groups and endless quarrels over ephemeral theories can never effect any real change in the world they experience from day to day. They know that no matter who is in office, what laws are on the books, what “ism”s the intellectuals march under, the content of their lives will remain the same. They — we — know that our boredom is proof that these “politics” are not the key to any real transformation of life. For our lives are boring enough already! 0. https://crimethinc.com/2000/09/11/your-politics-are-boring-as-fuck https://crimethinc.com/2000/09/11/your-politics-are-boring-a...
- rustyboy 8y ago
  While I agree with Crimethinc and that quote, I can't seem to get into their writing anymore. Most of their writing comes across as defeatist or exhausting, but it's understandable because they've been promoting leftist ideals for decades now while the world slides into more and more authoritarianism.
  - tuxxy 8y ago
    Perhaps so, but I see the writing as more of a "The status quo will continue until we take action." I think there is something to be said about defeatism in this regard. Things absolutely will not change until there is action. Crimethinc is simply stating the obvious -- there is no action. Lately, The Invisible Committee's books have kept me very enthusiastic. If you haven't read those yet (specifically, "Now" and "The Coming Insurrection") you've been missing out. For anyone else who is not a radical leftist, there are some interesting takes on how technology has affected human interaction. I see it as an interesting read for many people in tech.
    - rustyboy 8y ago
      I havn't read the books, thanks for the recommendations i'll check them out. Crimethinc/AdBusters has seem to be more about fostering counter culture rather than interesting leftist thought not to say one's more important than the other, but seeing even the most radical members of our party still consumed by selfies and starbucks makes me really dissapointed. Crimethinc taught me to about Buy Nothing Day, how to make my own soap, and go vegan/local.
- hopler 8y ago
  Does crimethinc do anything more impactful than write screeds lie Jacobin does?
- thatfrenchguy 8y ago
  "Published in 2000"
ahartmetz 8y ago
IMO, more ethics of responsibility instead of ethics of conviction is exactly what is needed. Because "right-think" does not improve people's lives, but results do. They have every right to feel superior over lazy thinkers who just subscribe to some currently fashionable belief system including the crazy parts.

yellowbuilding 8y ago

Jacobin is one sharp publication. Baskar runs a tight ship, and somehow the books are even in order! Who would have thought?

ghostcluster 8y ago

To name your magazine after the frenzied murderous excess of the French Revolution reminds me of how rabidly violent the far left is. And when we have so many examples of radical collectivism leading to mass suffering (much of humanity's gains in the last 40 years can be traced to China's rejection of it in the late 1970s), and an intellectual foundation based on patently false dogma like Marx's 'labor theory of value'.. I wish the left would adopt some new role models and theory based on reality

dang 8y ago
Please keep generic ideological flamewar off this site. I realize the article is tempting in that direction, but there's also an interesting story there and plenty of specifics. "Frenzied murderous excess" of whoever is the last thing the internet has anything new to say about, and in addition to being tediously repetitive, these discussions get hostile very quickly. Those are two reasons why they're off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ghostcluster 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin - the second paragraph talks about the guillotining of 17,000 political opponents. I apologize if my comment seemed too ideological, but I think it's fair to assert that they're a provocative thing to name your magazine after, and the piece mentions Jacobin's featuring the guillotine as well.
  - dang 8y ago
    The presence of a provocation doesn't mean we need to get provoked.
    - ghostcluster 8y ago
      The magazine sells guillotine posters: https://jacobinmag.com/store/product/1 https://jacobinmag.com/store/product/1

abvdasker 8y ago

The quality and depth of the writing in Jacobin's stories is what keeps me coming back. They go very in-depth in each story and aren't afraid to use a diction that's probably a bit more academic than the average American is comfortable with. Each piece is exactly as long as it needs to be, and they don't dumb down the content or try to soften their ideological views the way most mainstream publications do. I especially love that the subject matter is political but not reactionary, taking a longer view of social and economic issues rather than just producing articles focused solely on the outrage of the week. Only the writing in The New Yorker is better.

shanghaiaway 8y ago
It's a leftist publication, of course it's not reactionary. It's Marxist, of course it uses obscure language.
- randallsquared 8y ago
  They meant "reactive". (I also thought that "Reacting to the past rather than anticipating the future, not predictive." was one definition of reactionary, but not according to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reactive https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reactive and https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reactionary https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reactionary ).
  - uxp100 8y ago
    I thought so too, but at the very least it is confusing in this context.
zozbot123 8y ago
> I especially love that the subject matter is political but not reactionary And for those who do like reactionary subject matter, there is a nice alternative publication - which is of course named Jacobite https://jacobitemag.com/ https://jacobitemag.com/
- 8y ago

Dowwie 8y ago

While I think it is important to consider arguments across the entire political spectrum, reading Jacobin takes effort. It promotes a fictional world view where a command and control society makes purely altruistic, utilitarian decisions to maximize economic and social equality. Good and evil are too quickly ascribed to actors without consideration of attribution error. There is too much black and white thinking..

djrobstep 8y ago
If your version of "across the political spectrum" stops short of democratic socialism, perhaps it's time to try harder to expand your mind.
- testrun 8y ago
  What is democratic socialism?
  - djrobstep 8y ago
    If you'd like to find out more I can recommend a great magazine.
- rayiner 8y ago
  What people call “democratic socialism” is more accurately called “welfare capitalism” (where the means of production remain private). That’s not what Jacobin espouses.
  - orhmeh09 8y ago
    That describes social democracy. I found an explanation of the differences on the magazine’s website: https://jacobinmag.com/2018/08/democratic-socialism-social-democracy-nordic-countries https://jacobinmag.com/2018/08/democratic-socialism-social-d...
  - bitwize 8y ago
    You're thinking of "social democracy". Democratic socialism is where the people decide how resources are to be allocated, not the elite few. See: https://jacobinmag.com/2018/07/democratic-socialism-bernie-sanders-social-democracy-alexandria-ocasio-cortez https://jacobinmag.com/2018/07/democratic-socialism-bernie-s...

barking 8y ago

I googled Jacobin and on the results noticed a tweet from the Jacobin account Angela Merkel has resigned as CDU leader. Her failed promises of "prosperity for all" are leading to the disintegration of the traditional mass parties. Reads bit sacred scripturey to me, as in Marx tells us in chapter X verse XX I wonder if they address one another as comrade?

geofft 8y ago
And? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make / what you're trying to communicate.
adwhit 8y ago
The left regularly address each other as "comrade", albeit sometimes a little tongue-in-cheek. Solidarity is an important and necessary part of the culture, given the odds are heavily stacked against them.

fancyfish 8y ago

The graphic design of Jacobin is what always stands out to me. There is sort of a retro playful feel to the cover art and images inside. And a mix of different typefaces from article to article. Not to mention the articles themselves are printed on a variety of paper types within a single issue, from glossy and thin to thicker with a fold-out. One of the few print magazines where I enjoy physically flipping through the pages. https://coverjunkie.com/cover-categories/best-of-the-rest/jacobin-3/ https://coverjunkie.com/cover-categories/best-of-the-rest/ja...