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I just totally de-Googled my life recently, and ended up almost entirely in the Apple ecosystem after evaluating my options. Switched to DDG full time for web s

I just totally de-Googled my life recently, and ended up almost entirely in the Apple ecosystem after evaluating my options. Switched to DDG full time for web search, Safari for browsing, iCloud for email, and Apple Maps is actually usable now with decent real time traffic. I never thought in a million years it would come to this, but the lines have clearly been drawn over the last two years. Apple has time and again come out emphatically in support of The User in a way that Google simply has not (or will not) step up to. It's quickly becoming their single largest competitive advantage in consumer web services.

fmajid 8y ago
There's /e/ around the corner for a de-googlified Android experience. Sadly hardware support is limited at the moment.
- scns 8y ago
  LineageOS with microg supports loads of devices, more DIY though
thegreatpeter 8y ago
I second this. duckduckgo (ios / mac / gaming pc), firefox, apple maps have been awesome. Gmail has been hard to get away from though because of my account but I hope to take care of that soon.
todd3834 8y ago
While I haven’t de-Googled I do mostly stick to Apple products because of the quality and advantages of the ecosystem. I’m more interested in using the best product for what I want to do. While that is sure to be subjective it feels like Apple is the best to me. That being said, I’m not able to stick to DDG. Every time I do a search and I don’t find what I’m looking for on DDG I think, “I bet Google would have found it”. However when I’m on Google and I don’t find what I’m looking for I think, “I just didn’t write a good query”. That mental hurdle is hard to get over. Safari vs Chrome is another one where I choose Google. The web developer tools for the browser and the integration with Node/V8 seem so much better. If I were not a developer I imagine I could prefer Safari but it’s too hard to pretend when it’s what I do all day.
- lucb1e 8y ago
  > Every time I do a search and I don’t find what I’m looking for on DDG I think, “I bet Google would have found it”. However when I’m on Google and I don’t find what I’m looking for I think, “I just didn’t write a good query”. That mental hurdle is hard to get over. Same here. It doesn't help that 80% of the time I'm having the former issue, I copy the query to Google and the top hit is perfect, a hit which didn't even show up 30 results down on ddg. I should try copying the other way, but Google does seem objectively better (doesn't stop me trying to use ddg and only go to Google manually as a fallback).
  - beatgammit 8y ago
    I use DDG nearly exclusively, and writing better queries is definitely workable. I just throw a couple more keywords and I usually find what I need. Google does a ton of personalization of search results, whereas DDG doesn't, so it's not really a fair comparison. I've found that, with my better queries, StartPage (anonymous Google results) isn't much better, so the difference is likely Google getting to know you better.
    - lucb1e 8y ago
      The only personalization they can do is based on my region (IP address), user agent (all the better if "crop image" gives me Linux results), and the fact that this is the only data they have on me. There are no cookies or localStorage. Unless they do browser fingerprinting (which I hope would be big news and would legally have to be in their privacy policy, so I'd know about it), it can't be that custom. I'm quite convinced google search really is just that much better. The country localisation gets in the way as often as it doesn't for normal usage, but given that I use ddg by default, many of the queries I use Google for are the ones I actually want localised. (Ddg is even worse at searching in other languages, which gets slightly better if you manually change the search language on the results page, but not much.) I'll give startpage a try. I thought Google blocked (or at least CAPTCHAd) third parties from using the search without paying for every query (their search api is super expensive), so I didn't look for a proxying service before. Thanks for the tip :)
- 8y ago
em3rgent0rdr 8y ago
You can degoogle your life without resorting to the apple ecosystem: https://prism-break.org/en/categories/android/ https://prism-break.org/en/categories/android/ https://prism-break.org/en/categories/servers/ https://prism-break.org/en/categories/servers/
- amanaplanacanal 8y ago
  I haven't completely de-googled, but mostly. Now using: iPhone, DuckDuckGo, Outlook, Firefox. Still using google maps, and I haven't yet moved all of my email from Gmail to Outlook, but getting there.
- balladeer 8y ago
  Unless you want to deal with custom ROMs, breaking apps because you used a Google services alternative and everything all over again if you want to upgrade to another Android version which will never be the latest you will end up on a phone which is the Google Android and then you can only do so much for privacy. Android phone today is like living in a room full of CCTV cameras and mics and tons of sensors and trying to close the windows and doors while the control of those feeds are in the hands of Google.
  - beatgammit 8y ago
    Which is why I'm so excited about the Librem 5. If you have modest requirements, it should work for you. App availability will be pretty limited, but if you're willing to go the custom ROM route, that's probably not a huge concern. Once I find an alternative to Google Drive that I like well enough, I'll seriously consider the Librem 5 or going back to a flip phone. My phone requirements are pretty modest, but since I already give Google a ton of data through Drive, I figure using their phones isn't that much worse (I just limit how many additional services I use).
what_ever 8y ago
I am sorry, but how is this relevant to this thread?
- noobermin 8y ago
  Native content on HN?
- 01100011 8y ago
  It's a reminder that Apple does offer something for the high price. Maybe their tech isn't breaking new ground, but their attitude towards their customers' privacy rights may help sales going forward. I'm also considering switching from Android. I'd rather pay more and be the customer instead of the product.
banachtarski 8y ago
Dissenting opinion. I currently have an iPhone and a Macbook and I cannot wait for the next cycle. I'm ditching Apple and its products entirely. Between the predatory rent-seeking app store, hostile my-way-or-the-highway developer environment, and just downright awful products (mail, message, contacts, and all the other apple nonsense apps preinstalled i never care for) as well as a buggy and unreliable icloud that has lost me data, I can't wait to leave.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jay_kyburz 8y ago
  I actually quite like a lot of the software, but about two years ago I started a job where I needed to run windows, and I needed some 3d muscle (A GTX1060). A widows laptop was literately half the price of a mac laptop of a similar speed. Well, that's when I found out how locked into the mac ecosystem I was. It was very painful to switch back to windows. Even my keyboard shortcut muscle memory was difficult to overcome.
- josho 8y ago
  The parent made the case for how Apple sides with its users. Your complaints may be legit, but none are from an end user perspective.
  - emsy 8y ago
    The rent seeking trickles down to customers. See Netflix not taking subscriptions through Apple anymore. If this happens with one service, customers may be puzzled, if this happens with all services, customers will get annoyed. The way Apple treats their developers is how they treat their platform.
  - banachtarski 8y ago
    The apps and iCloud portion of my comment should be relevant, as is the observation that I can't load whatever I want on the phone. I have to go through this horrible app store which Apple took years to redesign and ended up being even worse than its predecessor for discovering content (and policing content!)
Larrikin 8y ago
Why Safari instead of moving over to Firefox?
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  Integration with iOS (history/bookmarks/tabs sync) is a good reason.
  - orloffm 8y ago
    Firefox on iOS does that with its desktop version.
- aphextron 8y ago
  > Why Safari instead of moving over to Firefox? Mozilla has lost my trust lately. I don't doubt the sincerity of the developers there. But they've grown into a large revenue generating organization now, and their principles appear compromised at the executive level. See this debacle over the recent Booking.com ad that finally made me dump Firefox [0] [0] https://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-640-is-now-showing-a-bookingcom-ad-in-the-new-tab-page https://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-640-is-now-showing-a-boo...
- jen729w 8y ago
  Why Firefox instead of Safari?
  - beatgammit 8y ago
    You can't sync Safari bookmarks with Firefox, Firefox has tons of awesome extensions on desktop, Firefox exists on all major platforms, and Firefox on Android has extensions as well (ad block on mobile is awesome). Why Safari instead of Firefox? On iOS, they're the same browser underneath anyway, so there difference lies in extra features on top.
dimator 8y ago
How is requiring (and selling) a portfolio of overpriced dongles "in support of the user"? Apple has let margins dictate design decisions for many years now. That's not user first. I don't know a single iPhone x user who likes being jackless.
- jon889 8y ago
  Pretty much anyone with AirPods or wireless headphones couldn’t care less about the jack missing. It’s really not a big deal, anyone with wired headphones I know, just keeps the free dongke attaches to the headphones as if it was part of the cable.
- sbuk 8y ago
  When I got my iMac in 1998, it came with a crappy mouse and no ADB ports to plug my old mouse into, it only had those new fangled USB ports. Apple didn't make dongles and it was something like three months before a third party dongle was available, which cost more than a new USB mouse. For about two years, I had to run my Zip drive and printer on the dodgiest series of parallel-to-USB converters ever made. My point is that it has been ever thus. This is not new. I like that Apple push standards. USB-C is clearly the right direction to go. I’m just bitter they’re not available on iPhones. Yet. As for headphone jacks. I haven’t used wired headphones with my iPhone for over 5 years. Dropping the jack has literally had no impact on me whatsoever. In fact it’s one less hole to fill with pocket lint. Before you go on a tirade of audiophile nonsense, I’ll remind you that most people listen to audio and video that is streamed over cellular data in a lossy format. All arguments are rendered moot. I am a content iPhone X user, so now you know of at least one.
  - arvinsim 8y ago
    The way I see it, this justification of removing the headphone jack > In fact it’s one less hole to fill with pocket lint. Is much more nonsensical than > audiophile nonsense Seriously, I haven't head of one good reason that the headphone jack hindered wireless audio.
    - 8y ago
nkkollaw 8y ago
What's the difference between Google and Apple? Google might be unethical, but so is Apple. They routinely: - kick out unwanted apps from their app store - deplatform unwanted people using "hate speech" as a pretext, while keeping awful actual "hate speech" in the form of hip-hop songs - refuse to admit to indisputable hardware problems (like the keyboard in MBP, now iPads that bend too easily) until they're hit with class actions I'm just curious why you'd de-Google yourself, just to lock yourself in with another company.
- frontfor 8y ago
  At this point you’re just pretending like you don’t know why people degoogle. The number one reason would be privacy. And the fact that you’re a customer to Apple and not a product.
  - nkkollaw 8y ago
    > At this point you’re just pretending like you don’t know why people degoogle. My point was: if you've made it as far as de-Googling yourself and you are now not locked into an unethical company, why get yourself into the grip of another unethical company?
    - beatgammit 8y ago
      Convenience. I'm trying to degoogle without using another huge company, but it's difficult piecing together alternatives. For example, I'm having the most trouble with Drive (spreadsheets specifically), Android (I dislike iOS), and YouTube (content is king), but I've been about to kick nearly everything else. Apple provides a lot of solutions to common problems Google users run into when switching away, and they seem way better from a privacy standpoint than any other one stop shop. Unfortunately, they arguably have worse lock-in, so you can't easily switch single pieces out (e.g. Safari isn't a thing on other platforms, not sure about iCloud, but most Apple services don't seem to work outside Apple's existence, like AirDrop). Apple works hard to make their ecosystem work seamlessly, just as Google does. I agree, moving from one to the other seems a little self defeating, but it may be a net improvement for some. I prefer to try to piece together disparate services for redundancy, but I understand the desire to just let Apple take control.
golfer 8y ago
Serious question: with all this effort, has your life improved in any tangible way? What did you gain from using these products?
- beatgammit 8y ago
  Not OP, but I like not being tracked. Also, DDG has a slew of awesome features, such as bangs (shortcuts to sites, e.g. !a for Amazon, !w for Wikipedia, !aw for Arch Wiki, etc). In fact, I prefer DDG to Google on that basis alone, though occasionally I have to !g or !sp for better search results (Google and Start Page respectively). I still use Google Drive, Google Fi, and Gmail (moving to ProtonMail), but I've found awesome alternatives that improve on Google products: - Orgzly - way better than Keep, and with Syncthing, I can edit task lists on my desktop with my preferred editor - Firefox - ad block on mobile is awesome, as is browser integration for Bitwarden - Signal - better than Hangouts for SMS, if only for the dark theme - andOTP - pin lock for second factor auth beats out Google's Authenticator app I've been considering moving to NextCloud (tons of advantages over GSuite), but I'm having trouble replacing Google Sheets. Honestly, most of Google's products are mediocre, and it's really annoying switching to their flavor of the week (Google Talk -> Hangouts -> Allo -> Duo, Gmail redesign that runs like crap on Firefox, etc). I also wish there were compelling alternatives to YouTube (PeerTube looks interesting, but unlikely to get traction) and Android (Librem 5 might be good enough). In trying to switch, I'm realizing how much better some options are once you get out of the Google ecosystem, but it's hard to kick the few strong products they have.

fmajid 8y ago

There's /e/ around the corner for a de-googlified Android experience. Sadly hardware support is limited at the moment.

scns 8y ago
LineageOS with microg supports loads of devices, more DIY though

thegreatpeter 8y ago

I second this. duckduckgo (ios / mac / gaming pc), firefox, apple maps have been awesome. Gmail has been hard to get away from though because of my account but I hope to take care of that soon.

todd3834 8y ago

While I haven’t de-Googled I do mostly stick to Apple products because of the quality and advantages of the ecosystem. I’m more interested in using the best product for what I want to do. While that is sure to be subjective it feels like Apple is the best to me. That being said, I’m not able to stick to DDG. Every time I do a search and I don’t find what I’m looking for on DDG I think, “I bet Google would have found it”. However when I’m on Google and I don’t find what I’m looking for I think, “I just didn’t write a good query”. That mental hurdle is hard to get over. Safari vs Chrome is another one where I choose Google. The web developer tools for the browser and the integration with Node/V8 seem so much better. If I were not a developer I imagine I could prefer Safari but it’s too hard to pretend when it’s what I do all day.

lucb1e 8y ago
> Every time I do a search and I don’t find what I’m looking for on DDG I think, “I bet Google would have found it”. However when I’m on Google and I don’t find what I’m looking for I think, “I just didn’t write a good query”. That mental hurdle is hard to get over. Same here. It doesn't help that 80% of the time I'm having the former issue, I copy the query to Google and the top hit is perfect, a hit which didn't even show up 30 results down on ddg. I should try copying the other way, but Google does seem objectively better (doesn't stop me trying to use ddg and only go to Google manually as a fallback).
- beatgammit 8y ago
  I use DDG nearly exclusively, and writing better queries is definitely workable. I just throw a couple more keywords and I usually find what I need. Google does a ton of personalization of search results, whereas DDG doesn't, so it's not really a fair comparison. I've found that, with my better queries, StartPage (anonymous Google results) isn't much better, so the difference is likely Google getting to know you better.
  - lucb1e 8y ago
    The only personalization they can do is based on my region (IP address), user agent (all the better if "crop image" gives me Linux results), and the fact that this is the only data they have on me. There are no cookies or localStorage. Unless they do browser fingerprinting (which I hope would be big news and would legally have to be in their privacy policy, so I'd know about it), it can't be that custom. I'm quite convinced google search really is just that much better. The country localisation gets in the way as often as it doesn't for normal usage, but given that I use ddg by default, many of the queries I use Google for are the ones I actually want localised. (Ddg is even worse at searching in other languages, which gets slightly better if you manually change the search language on the results page, but not much.) I'll give startpage a try. I thought Google blocked (or at least CAPTCHAd) third parties from using the search without paying for every query (their search api is super expensive), so I didn't look for a proxying service before. Thanks for the tip :)
8y ago

em3rgent0rdr 8y ago

You can degoogle your life without resorting to the apple ecosystem: https://prism-break.org/en/categories/android/ https://prism-break.org/en/categories/android/ https://prism-break.org/en/categories/servers/ https://prism-break.org/en/categories/servers/

amanaplanacanal 8y ago
I haven't completely de-googled, but mostly. Now using: iPhone, DuckDuckGo, Outlook, Firefox. Still using google maps, and I haven't yet moved all of my email from Gmail to Outlook, but getting there.
balladeer 8y ago
Unless you want to deal with custom ROMs, breaking apps because you used a Google services alternative and everything all over again if you want to upgrade to another Android version which will never be the latest you will end up on a phone which is the Google Android and then you can only do so much for privacy. Android phone today is like living in a room full of CCTV cameras and mics and tons of sensors and trying to close the windows and doors while the control of those feeds are in the hands of Google.
- beatgammit 8y ago
  Which is why I'm so excited about the Librem 5. If you have modest requirements, it should work for you. App availability will be pretty limited, but if you're willing to go the custom ROM route, that's probably not a huge concern. Once I find an alternative to Google Drive that I like well enough, I'll seriously consider the Librem 5 or going back to a flip phone. My phone requirements are pretty modest, but since I already give Google a ton of data through Drive, I figure using their phones isn't that much worse (I just limit how many additional services I use).

what_ever 8y ago

I am sorry, but how is this relevant to this thread?

noobermin 8y ago
Native content on HN?
01100011 8y ago
It's a reminder that Apple does offer something for the high price. Maybe their tech isn't breaking new ground, but their attitude towards their customers' privacy rights may help sales going forward. I'm also considering switching from Android. I'd rather pay more and be the customer instead of the product.

banachtarski 8y ago

Dissenting opinion. I currently have an iPhone and a Macbook and I cannot wait for the next cycle. I'm ditching Apple and its products entirely. Between the predatory rent-seeking app store, hostile my-way-or-the-highway developer environment, and just downright awful products (mail, message, contacts, and all the other apple nonsense apps preinstalled i never care for) as well as a buggy and unreliable icloud that has lost me data, I can't wait to leave.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jay_kyburz 8y ago
I actually quite like a lot of the software, but about two years ago I started a job where I needed to run windows, and I needed some 3d muscle (A GTX1060). A widows laptop was literately half the price of a mac laptop of a similar speed. Well, that's when I found out how locked into the mac ecosystem I was. It was very painful to switch back to windows. Even my keyboard shortcut muscle memory was difficult to overcome.
josho 8y ago
The parent made the case for how Apple sides with its users. Your complaints may be legit, but none are from an end user perspective.
- emsy 8y ago
  The rent seeking trickles down to customers. See Netflix not taking subscriptions through Apple anymore. If this happens with one service, customers may be puzzled, if this happens with all services, customers will get annoyed. The way Apple treats their developers is how they treat their platform.
- banachtarski 8y ago
  The apps and iCloud portion of my comment should be relevant, as is the observation that I can't load whatever I want on the phone. I have to go through this horrible app store which Apple took years to redesign and ended up being even worse than its predecessor for discovering content (and policing content!)

Larrikin 8y ago

Why Safari instead of moving over to Firefox?

LeoPanthera 8y ago
Integration with iOS (history/bookmarks/tabs sync) is a good reason.
- orloffm 8y ago
  Firefox on iOS does that with its desktop version.
aphextron 8y ago
> Why Safari instead of moving over to Firefox? Mozilla has lost my trust lately. I don't doubt the sincerity of the developers there. But they've grown into a large revenue generating organization now, and their principles appear compromised at the executive level. See this debacle over the recent Booking.com ad that finally made me dump Firefox [0] [0] https://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-640-is-now-showing-a-bookingcom-ad-in-the-new-tab-page https://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-640-is-now-showing-a-boo...
jen729w 8y ago
Why Firefox instead of Safari?
- beatgammit 8y ago
  You can't sync Safari bookmarks with Firefox, Firefox has tons of awesome extensions on desktop, Firefox exists on all major platforms, and Firefox on Android has extensions as well (ad block on mobile is awesome). Why Safari instead of Firefox? On iOS, they're the same browser underneath anyway, so there difference lies in extra features on top.

dimator 8y ago

How is requiring (and selling) a portfolio of overpriced dongles "in support of the user"? Apple has let margins dictate design decisions for many years now. That's not user first. I don't know a single iPhone x user who likes being jackless.

jon889 8y ago
Pretty much anyone with AirPods or wireless headphones couldn’t care less about the jack missing. It’s really not a big deal, anyone with wired headphones I know, just keeps the free dongke attaches to the headphones as if it was part of the cable.
sbuk 8y ago
When I got my iMac in 1998, it came with a crappy mouse and no ADB ports to plug my old mouse into, it only had those new fangled USB ports. Apple didn't make dongles and it was something like three months before a third party dongle was available, which cost more than a new USB mouse. For about two years, I had to run my Zip drive and printer on the dodgiest series of parallel-to-USB converters ever made. My point is that it has been ever thus. This is not new. I like that Apple push standards. USB-C is clearly the right direction to go. I’m just bitter they’re not available on iPhones. Yet. As for headphone jacks. I haven’t used wired headphones with my iPhone for over 5 years. Dropping the jack has literally had no impact on me whatsoever. In fact it’s one less hole to fill with pocket lint. Before you go on a tirade of audiophile nonsense, I’ll remind you that most people listen to audio and video that is streamed over cellular data in a lossy format. All arguments are rendered moot. I am a content iPhone X user, so now you know of at least one.
- arvinsim 8y ago
  The way I see it, this justification of removing the headphone jack > In fact it’s one less hole to fill with pocket lint. Is much more nonsensical than > audiophile nonsense Seriously, I haven't head of one good reason that the headphone jack hindered wireless audio.
  - 8y ago

nkkollaw 8y ago

What's the difference between Google and Apple? Google might be unethical, but so is Apple. They routinely: - kick out unwanted apps from their app store - deplatform unwanted people using "hate speech" as a pretext, while keeping awful actual "hate speech" in the form of hip-hop songs - refuse to admit to indisputable hardware problems (like the keyboard in MBP, now iPads that bend too easily) until they're hit with class actions I'm just curious why you'd de-Google yourself, just to lock yourself in with another company.

frontfor 8y ago
At this point you’re just pretending like you don’t know why people degoogle. The number one reason would be privacy. And the fact that you’re a customer to Apple and not a product.
- nkkollaw 8y ago
  > At this point you’re just pretending like you don’t know why people degoogle. My point was: if you've made it as far as de-Googling yourself and you are now not locked into an unethical company, why get yourself into the grip of another unethical company?
  - beatgammit 8y ago
    Convenience. I'm trying to degoogle without using another huge company, but it's difficult piecing together alternatives. For example, I'm having the most trouble with Drive (spreadsheets specifically), Android (I dislike iOS), and YouTube (content is king), but I've been about to kick nearly everything else. Apple provides a lot of solutions to common problems Google users run into when switching away, and they seem way better from a privacy standpoint than any other one stop shop. Unfortunately, they arguably have worse lock-in, so you can't easily switch single pieces out (e.g. Safari isn't a thing on other platforms, not sure about iCloud, but most Apple services don't seem to work outside Apple's existence, like AirDrop). Apple works hard to make their ecosystem work seamlessly, just as Google does. I agree, moving from one to the other seems a little self defeating, but it may be a net improvement for some. I prefer to try to piece together disparate services for redundancy, but I understand the desire to just let Apple take control.

golfer 8y ago

Serious question: with all this effort, has your life improved in any tangible way? What did you gain from using these products?

beatgammit 8y ago
Not OP, but I like not being tracked. Also, DDG has a slew of awesome features, such as bangs (shortcuts to sites, e.g. !a for Amazon, !w for Wikipedia, !aw for Arch Wiki, etc). In fact, I prefer DDG to Google on that basis alone, though occasionally I have to !g or !sp for better search results (Google and Start Page respectively). I still use Google Drive, Google Fi, and Gmail (moving to ProtonMail), but I've found awesome alternatives that improve on Google products: - Orgzly - way better than Keep, and with Syncthing, I can edit task lists on my desktop with my preferred editor - Firefox - ad block on mobile is awesome, as is browser integration for Bitwarden - Signal - better than Hangouts for SMS, if only for the dark theme - andOTP - pin lock for second factor auth beats out Google's Authenticator app I've been considering moving to NextCloud (tons of advantages over GSuite), but I'm having trouble replacing Google Sheets. Honestly, most of Google's products are mediocre, and it's really annoying switching to their flavor of the week (Google Talk -> Hangouts -> Allo -> Duo, Gmail redesign that runs like crap on Firefox, etc). I also wish there were compelling alternatives to YouTube (PeerTube looks interesting, but unlikely to get traction) and Android (Librem 5 might be good enough). In trying to switch, I'm realizing how much better some options are once you get out of the Google ecosystem, but it's hard to kick the few strong products they have.