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Scratch is pretty great, and at least 3 of my kids constantly ask if they can play Scratch. Unfortunately, for 2 of them it usually means just putting character

Scratch is pretty great, and at least 3 of my kids constantly ask if they can play Scratch. Unfortunately, for 2 of them it usually means just putting characters on a stage and adding code to change their costumes when you click the green button. But if you have kids who want to step up their game from Scratch, check out PICO-8 (submitted it earlier today, check my history). It's genuinely amazing, and my oldest absolutely loves using it. He's made some awesome 2d games so far over winter break and he's using legitimate programming concepts and techniques like they're nothing, it's really amazing to watch.

philsnow 8y ago
Also if you think pico-8 is a toy.... Well it is a bit; is intentionally constrained. But some actual commercial successes started on pico-8, like Celeste which is now in the switch store.
- jpm_sd 8y ago
  That's pretty cool! How did they port it to new architectures?
  - tmountain 8y ago
    They prototyped it in pico8 and rewrote it for the commercial release. Pico8 is wonderful, but it’s designed for proof of concepts, not commercial game dev.
    - xyzzy_plugh 8y ago
      It's almost assembly -- far from designed for proof of concepts. It's a toy for folks who enjoy challenging technical limitations such as low resolution, limited storage and processor power (not to mention palette). Tight constraints tend to breed innovation, however.
      - yoklov 8y ago
        It’s lua, just with restrictions. Nothing you’d ship with, but a far cry from almost assembly.
      - meheleventyone 8y ago
        I mean it’s definitely a way to enjoy things. But the intent of zep who made it was to create a cozy design space. He gave a talk about it last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87jfTIWosBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87jfTIWosBw
        sbergot 8y ago
        Thanks for the link. The presentation is great!
      - tmountain 8y ago
        Hrm, guess it depends on your notion of what proof of concepts are. Celeste on pico8 is essentially the same game as the commercial release from a gameplay perspective but with lower res artwork (as pico8 dictates) and far less content (again a pico8 constraint). Also, I have tooled around with writing homebrew NES games in 6502 asm, and pico8 is nothing like that. It’s a stripped down lua interpreter, which makes it light years easier than asm. I’ve proved out quite a few concepts in pico8 (pendulum motion, an entity component system, 2d physics models), so for me, that’s exactly what it’s for. The constraints of the platform are there to act as guard rails which prevent you from going “too big” with your idea and focus on creating smaller programs that actually work, and I think this is where the beauty lies since a lot of games die during the “let me create a bunch of scaffolding” phase which pico8 discourages.
ronilan 8y ago
Another way to level up from Scratch is BlockLike.js (https://www.blocklike.org https://www.blocklike.org). It’s an educational JavaScript library that follows Scratch concepts and patterns. It is specifically designed to bridge that huge gap between draggable blocks and typed code. Disclosure: I’m the author, AMA.
- FiveSquared 8y ago
  Wow, that project is amazing. The site design is confusing though ;) A more linear design like Wikipedia is good for parents, who are usually the ones reading things like this! ;)
dsnuh 8y ago
Voxatron from the same developer is also a lot of fun. I got both in a bundle deal for like $15 I think. Well worth it.
- kgwxd 8y ago
  Voxatron is really fun. It's been a while since I've looked into updates. This blog post[1] says "Voxatron now runs on the Looking Glass". That looks like it would be insanely fun and inspiring to use. [1] https://lexaloffle.com/bbs/?tid=32743 https://lexaloffle.com/bbs/?tid=32743 [2] https://i.lookingglassfactory.com/ https://i.lookingglassfactory.com/
  - dsnuh 8y ago
    Wow! Super cool!
guiambros 8y ago
+1; also strongly recommend PICO-8. I've been using it to teach programming to my 7 yo, and it has been an absolute joy. A few weeks ago we developed PONG together (he wasn't aware that PONG already existed, so it was beautiful to see him figuring out the mechanics of the game, piece by piece).
open_bear 8y ago
And if you cannot afford PICO-8, there is a free TIC-80 alternative.
- jfroma 8y ago
  Very nice, I've been volunteering in a group, we've been teaching Scratch to kids from 7 to 12. Can't wait until I show them this Is there any significant difference between TIC-80 and PICO-8? both looks awesome to me
- rafaelvasco 8y ago
  TIC-80 is not only free but actually has more features than PICO-8. Supports more languages for example. The display resolution is also higher. The code memory limitations bigger.

philsnow 8y ago

Also if you think pico-8 is a toy.... Well it is a bit; is intentionally constrained. But some actual commercial successes started on pico-8, like Celeste which is now in the switch store.

jpm_sd 8y ago
That's pretty cool! How did they port it to new architectures?
- tmountain 8y ago
  They prototyped it in pico8 and rewrote it for the commercial release. Pico8 is wonderful, but it’s designed for proof of concepts, not commercial game dev.
  - xyzzy_plugh 8y ago
    It's almost assembly -- far from designed for proof of concepts. It's a toy for folks who enjoy challenging technical limitations such as low resolution, limited storage and processor power (not to mention palette). Tight constraints tend to breed innovation, however.
    - yoklov 8y ago
      It’s lua, just with restrictions. Nothing you’d ship with, but a far cry from almost assembly.
    - meheleventyone 8y ago
      I mean it’s definitely a way to enjoy things. But the intent of zep who made it was to create a cozy design space. He gave a talk about it last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87jfTIWosBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87jfTIWosBw
      - sbergot 8y ago
        Thanks for the link. The presentation is great!
    - tmountain 8y ago
      Hrm, guess it depends on your notion of what proof of concepts are. Celeste on pico8 is essentially the same game as the commercial release from a gameplay perspective but with lower res artwork (as pico8 dictates) and far less content (again a pico8 constraint). Also, I have tooled around with writing homebrew NES games in 6502 asm, and pico8 is nothing like that. It’s a stripped down lua interpreter, which makes it light years easier than asm. I’ve proved out quite a few concepts in pico8 (pendulum motion, an entity component system, 2d physics models), so for me, that’s exactly what it’s for. The constraints of the platform are there to act as guard rails which prevent you from going “too big” with your idea and focus on creating smaller programs that actually work, and I think this is where the beauty lies since a lot of games die during the “let me create a bunch of scaffolding” phase which pico8 discourages.

ronilan 8y ago

Another way to level up from Scratch is BlockLike.js (https://www.blocklike.org https://www.blocklike.org). It’s an educational JavaScript library that follows Scratch concepts and patterns. It is specifically designed to bridge that huge gap between draggable blocks and typed code. Disclosure: I’m the author, AMA.

FiveSquared 8y ago
Wow, that project is amazing. The site design is confusing though ;) A more linear design like Wikipedia is good for parents, who are usually the ones reading things like this! ;)

dsnuh 8y ago

Voxatron from the same developer is also a lot of fun. I got both in a bundle deal for like $15 I think. Well worth it.

kgwxd 8y ago
Voxatron is really fun. It's been a while since I've looked into updates. This blog post[1] says "Voxatron now runs on the Looking Glass". That looks like it would be insanely fun and inspiring to use. [1] https://lexaloffle.com/bbs/?tid=32743 https://lexaloffle.com/bbs/?tid=32743 [2] https://i.lookingglassfactory.com/ https://i.lookingglassfactory.com/
- dsnuh 8y ago
  Wow! Super cool!

guiambros 8y ago

+1; also strongly recommend PICO-8. I've been using it to teach programming to my 7 yo, and it has been an absolute joy. A few weeks ago we developed PONG together (he wasn't aware that PONG already existed, so it was beautiful to see him figuring out the mechanics of the game, piece by piece).

open_bear 8y ago

And if you cannot afford PICO-8, there is a free TIC-80 alternative.

jfroma 8y ago
Very nice, I've been volunteering in a group, we've been teaching Scratch to kids from 7 to 12. Can't wait until I show them this Is there any significant difference between TIC-80 and PICO-8? both looks awesome to me
rafaelvasco 8y ago
TIC-80 is not only free but actually has more features than PICO-8. Supports more languages for example. The display resolution is also higher. The code memory limitations bigger.