5 ms·

Something I’m genuinely curious about (and don’t know the answer to): how much better is the entire lifecycle of an EV on the environment versus an ICE, from ra

Something I’m genuinely curious about (and don’t know the answer to): how much better is the entire lifecycle of an EV on the environment versus an ICE, from raw materials to disposal of the parts? Do we have ways to dispose/recycle the enormous batteries used to power our EVs? Is the supply chain for the raw materials any more/less harmful than the supply chain for an ICE?

clouddrover 8y ago
VW's future electric cars are based on a modular design they call their "MEB platform": https://electrek.co/2018/09/18/vw-meb-platform-electric-for-all-affordable-evs/ https://electrek.co/2018/09/18/vw-meb-platform-electric-for-... It allows them to do things like reuse old car batteries in mobile charging stations: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastianblanco/2018/12/27/vw-mobile-charging-station/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastianblanco/2018/12/27/vw-m... Battery makers are trying to reduce the amount of cobalt in the their batteries due to high cost and also because a lot of cobalt comes from regions in conflict (like Congo): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-battery-cobalt-idUSKBN1AJ0S8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-battery-cobalt... And car makers are trying to simplify the composition of their electric motors. BMW's new electric motor doesn't use any rare earths: https://insideevs.com/bmw-5th-generation-electric-drive-extremely-compact/ https://insideevs.com/bmw-5th-generation-electric-drive-extr...
outworlder 8y ago
Not sure how the entire lifecycle compares with ICE cars. I would expect EVs to compare very favorably even if they were more harmful to manufacture, once all externalities are taking into account (include oil, fuel, filters and transport of these in the equation). I don't know of extensive studies to back up this, however and would appreciate if someone would point them out. One thing we DO know is: lithium batteries are highly recyclable. Almost all lithium can be recovered (and is, as despite it's abundance, it's still valuable due to demand). But here's the thing: car batteries are so huge that, once their available capacity is no longer attractive to use in cars, they can have a second life as stationary storage (for instance, powerwalls), where weight is not a concern. Once they are no longer fit even for that, then we can recycle them and start anew.
moongarammasala 8y ago
Here's something cited in a talk I saw recently out of Carnegie Mellon; the paper linked has a lot more detail than the press release if you're intrigued. Bottom line: in a lot of the country (esp. upper Midwest), electric vehicles are behind hybrids or even small ICE cars in terms of lifetime emissions. https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2015/july/greenest-vehicles-by-region.html https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2015/july/greenest...

clouddrover 8y ago

VW's future electric cars are based on a modular design they call their "MEB platform": https://electrek.co/2018/09/18/vw-meb-platform-electric-for-all-affordable-evs/ https://electrek.co/2018/09/18/vw-meb-platform-electric-for-... It allows them to do things like reuse old car batteries in mobile charging stations: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastianblanco/2018/12/27/vw-mobile-charging-station/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastianblanco/2018/12/27/vw-m... Battery makers are trying to reduce the amount of cobalt in the their batteries due to high cost and also because a lot of cobalt comes from regions in conflict (like Congo): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-battery-cobalt-idUSKBN1AJ0S8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-battery-cobalt... And car makers are trying to simplify the composition of their electric motors. BMW's new electric motor doesn't use any rare earths: https://insideevs.com/bmw-5th-generation-electric-drive-extremely-compact/ https://insideevs.com/bmw-5th-generation-electric-drive-extr...

outworlder 8y ago

Not sure how the entire lifecycle compares with ICE cars. I would expect EVs to compare very favorably even if they were more harmful to manufacture, once all externalities are taking into account (include oil, fuel, filters and transport of these in the equation). I don't know of extensive studies to back up this, however and would appreciate if someone would point them out. One thing we DO know is: lithium batteries are highly recyclable. Almost all lithium can be recovered (and is, as despite it's abundance, it's still valuable due to demand). But here's the thing: car batteries are so huge that, once their available capacity is no longer attractive to use in cars, they can have a second life as stationary storage (for instance, powerwalls), where weight is not a concern. Once they are no longer fit even for that, then we can recycle them and start anew.

moongarammasala 8y ago

Here's something cited in a talk I saw recently out of Carnegie Mellon; the paper linked has a lot more detail than the press release if you're intrigued. Bottom line: in a lot of the country (esp. upper Midwest), electric vehicles are behind hybrids or even small ICE cars in terms of lifetime emissions. https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2015/july/greenest-vehicles-by-region.html https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2015/july/greenest...