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Some of those guilds set minimums in part to provide barriers to entry. They're not solely acting in the interests of compassion and kindness. We do nobody any

by Kalium 8y ago

Some of those guilds set minimums in part to provide barriers to entry. They're not solely acting in the interests of compassion and kindness. We do nobody any favors by pretending there's no economic logic at work.

mikestew 8y ago
Some of those guilds set minimums in part to provide barriers to entry. What you call a "barrier to entry", others might call "certification of some base level of quality". Yeah, if you sling spaghetti Javascript, we're not letting you in, or summat. I'm not saying it always does, or even will, work out that way, but it is one option.
- Kalium 8y ago
  To the extent that guilds are active in ensuring a base level of quality, you're absolutely correct! Certainly I am not interested in writing - or hiring people who write - truly terrible code. It's just perhaps possible that not every currently existing and active guild that enforces minimum rates is also ensuring a minimum level of quality. This suggests that, in some times and some places, there can be a gap between what's possible and what's realized. You're completely right. Guilds can ensure quality!
- majewsky 8y ago
  I would really like to have something like that, but we currently lack a baseline curriculum that defines this "base level of quality". Stuff that won't change over the course of a programmer's career. Most conventional wisdoms in our craft are little more than fads at this point. Just look at how many colleges teach object-oriented programming with Java, while many professionals declare OOP dead, a thing of the past, only to be found in legacy monstrosities.
  - Kalium 8y ago
    As an additional wrinkle, any baseline curriculum that involves any reasonable amount of computing theory will put a lot of self-taught professional software engineers on the outside. That seems like it might be a hurdle to getting buy-in.

by Kalium 8y ago

mikestew 8y ago

Some of those guilds set minimums in part to provide barriers to entry. What you call a "barrier to entry", others might call "certification of some base level of quality". Yeah, if you sling spaghetti Javascript, we're not letting you in, or summat. I'm not saying it always does, or even will, work out that way, but it is one option.

Kalium 8y ago
To the extent that guilds are active in ensuring a base level of quality, you're absolutely correct! Certainly I am not interested in writing - or hiring people who write - truly terrible code. It's just perhaps possible that not every currently existing and active guild that enforces minimum rates is also ensuring a minimum level of quality. This suggests that, in some times and some places, there can be a gap between what's possible and what's realized. You're completely right. Guilds can ensure quality!
majewsky 8y ago
I would really like to have something like that, but we currently lack a baseline curriculum that defines this "base level of quality". Stuff that won't change over the course of a programmer's career. Most conventional wisdoms in our craft are little more than fads at this point. Just look at how many colleges teach object-oriented programming with Java, while many professionals declare OOP dead, a thing of the past, only to be found in legacy monstrosities.
- Kalium 8y ago
  As an additional wrinkle, any baseline curriculum that involves any reasonable amount of computing theory will put a lot of self-taught professional software engineers on the outside. That seems like it might be a hurdle to getting buy-in.