4 ms·

Can anyone in other west coast cities speak about the crime on the new transit systems? I'm in Portland, and for the first time in my life, I'm worried about cr

by xrd 8y ago

Can anyone in other west coast cities speak about the crime on the new transit systems? I'm in Portland, and for the first time in my life, I'm worried about crime on mass transit. Maybe it is just the automated news feeds that are circulating stories of stabbings and attacks that have heightened my internalized hysteria. At the same time, I've felt a larger presence of people on mass transit who seem to be dealing with a mental health crisis of some kind. And, it makes me feel less excited to bring my kids with me when I ride. This article does not touch on that.

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Gibbon1 8y ago
When I listen to my friends that ride buses and BART the major complaint is people doing utterly foul things like pissing or shitting. Or being harassed. Being harrased depends a lot on sex age etc. My GF's who looks like she lives in Walnut Creek gets harassed. Me who looks like an old skinny biker does not. Got to remember BART carries around 400,000 riders a day, 365 days a year.
- nicoburns 8y ago
  > Got to remember BART carries around 400,000 riders a day, 365 days a year. Seems like the issue is lack of security/policing, not the number of passengers. There are plenty of subway networks with far greater traffic that don't have this problem to nearly the same extent.
  - pishpash 8y ago
    CA doesn't do policing. It's all about the feel-good.
    - nicoburns 8y ago
      Clearly people aren't feeling that good about the public transport!
    - dmode 8y ago
      Is that why we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world ?
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - pishpash 8y ago
        It's like a low-grade fever: the fact that you stay sick while others are well is a sign that you didn't take your meds, not that you took too many.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    > There are plenty of subway networks with far greater traffic that don't have this problem to nearly the same extent. I think you can go a lot further: almost all public transport networks, regardless of type or usage, don't have this problem to any extent. Some people in large European or Asian cities don't like using public transport because of overcrowding, slow journey times, cost, inflexibility, infrequency, strikes, "terrorism" or whatever. I know people who would cite each of these reasons. I don't know anyone who would say there is excrement or urine in the vehicles or stations, or even unwashed people. It's that rare. Bay area residents needs to pressure their politicians into fixing the problem. That means some combination of - extra policing - extra cleaning - extra public toilets and maybe working out some long-term solution to the mentally ill homeless people.
    - pishpash 8y ago
      If a dog or child pisses everywhere do you tolerate it? There is a way to deal with it. It does not start with the word "tolerance" though, so no, politicians aren't going to be pressured into solving anything, because they were the ones that got voted in in the first place to turn a blind eye. People get the society they deserve.
  - crimsonalucard 8y ago
    It's not security or policing. It's the attitude of people and homeless people in the city.
- wastedhours 8y ago
  > people doing utterly foul things like pissing or shitting Based on my (very limited) experience of SF, that seems like an area-wide issue. I've travelled reasonably extensively and SF is the only place I've been where I've suspected more of the shit on the path (inside and out) was human than canine.
- pcr0 8y ago
  Beijing's subway carries over 10m passengers a day and definitely has less harassment and human excrement.
  - tokyodude 8y ago
    Tokyo's rail transit is at 40m passengers a day. We don't have the poo. We do have occasional vomit from drunk salary men. Fortunately it gets cleaned up relatively quickly. The cars are clean unlike SF.
    - crimsonalucard 8y ago
      This has everything to do with the attitude of people who ride the transit. You don't have poo because nobody does that in tokyo.
Karrot_Kream 8y ago
I take the BART in the SF Bay Area daily, and if you take it before 10 PM it feels safe, though can be annoying because it's not always the cleanest. Then again, I feel safer than on the road (where there's at least a handful of massive accidents each way, everyday) and I've definitely been in friends' cars that are not to the same cleanliness standard I hold my own things to.
jcranmer 8y ago
When I was in Atlanta, I regularly took MARTA, which travels through some rather slummy areas. Beyond the faregates, you're going to be rather safe. I personally felt safer riding the train in Atlanta than I did driving around in a car in Southeast DC. I don't think crime is any worse on mass transit than it is in the surrounding areas. I suspect that most of your fears are driven by media bias: crimes that happen in the crime-ridden section of town are inherently less newsworthy than crimes that happen outside of it.

by xrd 8y ago

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Gibbon1 8y ago

When I listen to my friends that ride buses and BART the major complaint is people doing utterly foul things like pissing or shitting. Or being harassed. Being harrased depends a lot on sex age etc. My GF's who looks like she lives in Walnut Creek gets harassed. Me who looks like an old skinny biker does not. Got to remember BART carries around 400,000 riders a day, 365 days a year.

nicoburns 8y ago
> Got to remember BART carries around 400,000 riders a day, 365 days a year. Seems like the issue is lack of security/policing, not the number of passengers. There are plenty of subway networks with far greater traffic that don't have this problem to nearly the same extent.
- pishpash 8y ago
  CA doesn't do policing. It's all about the feel-good.
  - nicoburns 8y ago
    Clearly people aren't feeling that good about the public transport!
  - dmode 8y ago
    Is that why we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world ?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - pishpash 8y ago
      It's like a low-grade fever: the fact that you stay sick while others are well is a sign that you didn't take your meds, not that you took too many.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  > There are plenty of subway networks with far greater traffic that don't have this problem to nearly the same extent. I think you can go a lot further: almost all public transport networks, regardless of type or usage, don't have this problem to any extent. Some people in large European or Asian cities don't like using public transport because of overcrowding, slow journey times, cost, inflexibility, infrequency, strikes, "terrorism" or whatever. I know people who would cite each of these reasons. I don't know anyone who would say there is excrement or urine in the vehicles or stations, or even unwashed people. It's that rare. Bay area residents needs to pressure their politicians into fixing the problem. That means some combination of - extra policing - extra cleaning - extra public toilets and maybe working out some long-term solution to the mentally ill homeless people.
  - pishpash 8y ago
    If a dog or child pisses everywhere do you tolerate it? There is a way to deal with it. It does not start with the word "tolerance" though, so no, politicians aren't going to be pressured into solving anything, because they were the ones that got voted in in the first place to turn a blind eye. People get the society they deserve.
- crimsonalucard 8y ago
  It's not security or policing. It's the attitude of people and homeless people in the city.
wastedhours 8y ago
> people doing utterly foul things like pissing or shitting Based on my (very limited) experience of SF, that seems like an area-wide issue. I've travelled reasonably extensively and SF is the only place I've been where I've suspected more of the shit on the path (inside and out) was human than canine.
pcr0 8y ago
Beijing's subway carries over 10m passengers a day and definitely has less harassment and human excrement.
- tokyodude 8y ago
  Tokyo's rail transit is at 40m passengers a day. We don't have the poo. We do have occasional vomit from drunk salary men. Fortunately it gets cleaned up relatively quickly. The cars are clean unlike SF.
  - crimsonalucard 8y ago
    This has everything to do with the attitude of people who ride the transit. You don't have poo because nobody does that in tokyo.

Karrot_Kream 8y ago

I take the BART in the SF Bay Area daily, and if you take it before 10 PM it feels safe, though can be annoying because it's not always the cleanest. Then again, I feel safer than on the road (where there's at least a handful of massive accidents each way, everyday) and I've definitely been in friends' cars that are not to the same cleanliness standard I hold my own things to.

jcranmer 8y ago

When I was in Atlanta, I regularly took MARTA, which travels through some rather slummy areas. Beyond the faregates, you're going to be rather safe. I personally felt safer riding the train in Atlanta than I did driving around in a car in Southeast DC. I don't think crime is any worse on mass transit than it is in the surrounding areas. I suspect that most of your fears are driven by media bias: crimes that happen in the crime-ridden section of town are inherently less newsworthy than crimes that happen outside of it.