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Xi Jinping says Taiwan “must and will be” reunited with China
- Reason077 8y agoRight. Chinese policy regarding Taiwan hasn’t changed then. Not really news.
- ccvannorman 8y agoI used to believe China could easily swallow Taiwan in military conflict, but the actual numbers are surprising considering their relative landmasses. Taiwan is not such an easy target to overthrow, and I doubt they'd lay down without a fight. I found this article to be particularly enlightening: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/25/taiwan-can-win-a-war-with-china/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/25/taiwan-can-win-a-war-wi...
- dingaling 8y agoTangent: 'lay' is transitive and requires an object e.g. 'lay themselves down' Otherwise use intransitive 'lie' e.g. lie down without a fight.
- throwmeback 8y agoThanks, IntelliSense! /s of course, I actually learned from the parent comment lol
- flukus 8y agoAssuming it's a traditional war. They might be able to create the right conditions for Taiwan to request annexation. There are a lot of mainland Chinese in Taiwan and probably a lot of PRC supporters, some sort of coup, insurrection or civil war could be possible. It's also possible for China to cripple Taiwan economically, take out some power stations and maybe other infrastructure and their industry collapses. This could even be done by foreign agents, they might not have to fire a shot directly. Then there's the various cyber-warfare possibilities.
- yumraj 8y agoSounds like empty rhetoric to distract the population from economic slowdown, trade war with US and general negative sentiments related to China both internally and externally.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- toasterlovin 8y agoOn the other hand, most armed conflicts are preceded by rhetoric of some kind.
- gedy 8y agoThe "our government represents ALL of China" that both the PRC and ROC gov'ts proclaimed is/was a mistake. China and Taiwan are in practice and reality now two countries, and the people in each don't benefit from the saber rattling. It would be the same as North or South Korea being the only "Korea" recognized by other governments or UN.
- dogma1138 8y agoTaiwan isn’t a member of the UN and is officially recognized by only 16 countries as the most fear pissing off China. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Taiwan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Taiwan They lost their UN seat in 1971 and haven’t been able to regain it since. With China’s influence especially in Africa and the Middle East growing there is less and less chance of Taiwan being recognized as an independent country without a global conflict or a massive political shift in China.
- chewz 8y ago"our government represents ALL of China" and Tibet, Xinjang, Mongolia, Taiwan and HK. China proper isn't such a large country after all. For centuries China had been expanding and overraching and then collapsing and shrinking. Perhaps we are observing Peak China again?
- nutcracker46 8y agoWe will soon notice whether the populist West will support government with the consent of the governed or stand by while Taiwan is thrown under the bus. The history of Crimea indicates that Taiwan's only hope is to aggresively apply violence as necessary for its independence.
- wallace_f 8y agoIf America has any earnest, genuine interest in all their wars abroad for freedom and democracy they must continue defense aid to Taiwan. China's exports are about to surpass the US's. Its growing influence and capability stand in the face of an America that seems determined to tear itself apart rather than be united in the cause of leading the world with virtue of liberty and human rights
- rdtsc 8y ago> The history of Crimea indicates that Taiwan's only hope is to aggressively apply violence as necessary for its independence. That's the first thing I thought as well. They watched very closely what happened in Crimea. The timeline also aligns in that Crimea was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Republic in 1954, about when Taiwan had split as well. What would other countries do if say Chinese soldiers wearing no insignia decide to go on "vacation" to Taiwan all of the sudden.
- kace91 8y ago> We will soon notice whether the populist West will support government with the consent of the governed or stand by while Taiwan is thrown under the bus. That's unfair, I think. There's a huge gap between "I don't agree with what's happening" and "I'm willing to risk nuclear war defending this cause".
- candiodari 8y agoBut the west didn't just agree to risk nuclear war defending Crimea, the west actually agreed to cause nuclear war to defend Crimea, if necessary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit... Hell, Russia went as far as to actually raise the issue in the UN general assembly that the west hasn't lived up to it's obligations under that treaty. So not only has the west proved it won't defend anyone, it has shown no diplomatic assurances of western states (or at least of the US, UK, France and China, and of course of the United Nations) are of any value whatsoever to smaller countries. The only open tactic remaining is for all states that fear territorial annexation is to develop first strike capability with nuclear weapons. If you don't have that, you're at the mercy of Russia, and frankly, China and any western country. If one of them decides to attack, no help will be forthcoming, not even a UN security council protest. All the comments here forget one very basic thing: if you aren't willing to serve in a war with China, you don't recognize Taiwan sovereignty. It doesn't take 2 countries to go to war, after all, it only takes one, and China is.
- xupybd 8y agoDoes anyone know the background here. Why is it that the Chinese government or people want to rule Taiwan as much as they appear to?
- paraditedc 8y agoHere's the really long background info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War
- wallace_f 8y agoROC (Taiwan) is the defacto legitimate government of China. They were defeated in war by communist forces and fled to Taiwan. At the time (1949-onward), America acknowledged ROC as the legitimate government of China, but only intervened to protect them in the Taiwan strait. You can simply read more detail on Wikipedia, etc(1). Then after Mao won control of China, he went on to oversee arguably the manslaughter and murder of more people than any other tyrant in history. 1-https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_retreat_to_Taiwan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_retreat_to...
- amaccuish 8y ago> ROC (Taiwan) is the defacto legitimate government of China. They were defeated in war by communist forces and fled to Taiwan. They were defeated, and yet still considered the "defacto legitimate government of China"? How does that work? I would think very few people consider the ROC the "legitimate" government of Mainland China. > America acknowledged ROC as the legitimate government of China Why is this relevant?
- nutcracker46 8y agoXi should consider the effect of vastly reduced foreign trade after an attempt to take Taiwan by force.
- Proven 8y agoThat's like your opinion, dude. Check out Articles 2 and 3 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Shimonoseki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Shimonoseki
- jbigelow76 8y agoYou gotta figure if the Chinese Politburo handicaps each US president on the odds of no US military response to a forceful re-unification attempt Trump is definitely going to be their horse. Happy New Year, cross your fingers 2019 doesn't go down in history books as the start of World War 3 :)
- fipple 8y agoCan’t think of any recent US President that would start a war with China over Taiwan. China will take Taiwan when it feels like it.
- yellowapple 8y agoA US President will be unlikely to (voluntarily) start a war with China directly, but the US and Taiwan stand to mutually benefit from the US beefing up its military aid to Taiwan (the US because Taiwan is a massive allied economy that's enough of a threat to China for China to want to assert control, and Taiwan because they probably don't want to be steamrolled by a dictatorship).
- polotics 8y agoI disagree. Letting the xijinping-dictatorship take over a democratic country would open the door for any and all further Asian invasions. The best chance to show all Hans that freedom can be won is on Taiwan.
- CathayRe 8y agoI don't see how a War could happen between two Nations that has Nukes. Do they agree on not to use Nuke before the war? There won't ever be a World War 3, if there is the next one might very well be the end of human civilisation.
- flukus 8y agoMost nations have adopted a "no first use" doctrine, a promise not to use nukes until their enemy does. The only nuclear powers not to adopt this are the US and north Korea.
- davince 8y agoFuck china. Taiwan is not, and had never been part of China. There could only be invasion by China. After WWII and treaty of San francisco, Taiwan and Pescadores islands were given up by then Japan and Taiwan is under management by UN allied force represented by then Chinese forces (Republic of china, ROC) or more specifically Chiang's force. But the soverignty of Taiwan was never specified. Currently the governing body of Taiwan has its own judicial systems, currency, military, and elect its own President. Current China (People's republic of china) has never has any official constraints on Taiwan. It is recognized as China after UN assembly 2758 that revoked Chiang's force as representative as China and replaced with the communist's People's republic of China. The government (ROC) currently on Taiwan thus was not recognized as China by most states in the international community. That being said, most international community also didn't recognize Taiwan as part of China and have relationship with Taiwan unofficially due to the undecided de jure status of Taiwan. As US has its Taiwan relations act. Despite this situation, Taiwan is still not part of China and has never been under governance of People's republic of China. But PRC has active 3000+ missiles preped and aimed at invading Taiwan as well has it's own law claiming Taiwan is its. PRC is a pure facist totalitarian state. and if you understand history well you will know how much dirt they swept under the carpet.
- known 8y agoIs there a "Berlin Wall" between Taiwan and China?
- gaius 8y ago70 miles of strait?
- throwmeback 8y agodoesn't it seem to be more effective than a wall actually?
- yarg 8y agoOne country, two systems - so the same as Hong Kong?
- emmelaich 8y agoNot remotely. Hong Kong was only leased from China.
- Reason077 8y agoHong Kong Island and the Kowloon Peninsula were ceded in perpetuity by the Qing Dynasty to the British Crown. It was only the New Territories that were leased, for 99 years beginning in 1898. However, it was agreed under the Sino-British Joint Declaration in 1984 to return all of Hong Kong to Chinese sovereignty upon expiration of the New Territories lease on July 1, 1997.
- onetimemanytime 8y agowhat ifs...would have China eventually attacked Hong Kong, like Argentina did to Falklands Islands? NATO doesn't cover faraway islands...
- robjan 8y agoThe parts of Hong Kong that were owned, and not leased, have basically no infrastructure to support people's lives. Hong Kong Island and Kowloon are basicslly residential and commercial only - there is no agriculture and the majority of the water and electricity comes from China and the New Territories.
- yarg 8y agoMy point was that "one country, two systems" is disingenuous rhetoric that has been used before by the Chinese government. It is intended to be a precursor to takeover and an eventual crackdown on the liberties of the citizenry.
- wallace_f 8y agoAll of my responses got what seems like an equal number of downvotes (4) sometime in the last hour, and this thread got ejected from the front page well over an hour before this happened. Smells like the product of small little online brigaide.
- Mikeb85 8y agoIt'll happen eventually, and likely without force. Taiwan (like HK) enjoyed relative economic success versus China because of their ties with the west, beneficial strategic location and relatively small population. Now that China's an economic superpower, still growing and liberalizing (albeit slowly), theres less reasons for Taiwan to oppose reunification. I doubt it'll happen in the next decade, but it likely will within 50 years.
- SamReidHughes 8y agoI don’t know much about Chinese people’s mindsets, but keep in mind that the Scottish and UK independence referendums were split about 50/50. Scotland is 5 million people, the UK is 65 million. A Taiwan/China unification makes as much sense to me as Canada merging with the United States.
- Mikeb85 8y agoCanada is ideologically quite separate from the US. Our histories diverged quite early, and we have fundamentally different ideas concerning governance. Linguistically and ethnically there's differences too. China and Taiwan both believe in only one China, and both believe in reunification, albeit with differing ideas on how to accomplish it (Taiwan still calls itself the Republic of China).
- CathayRe 8y agoI am not even sure you really meant it or you are trolling, but if you really believe what you wrote, I suggest you read up more about Hong Kong and Taiwan past and current status.
- CathayRe 8y ago>theres less reasons for Taiwan to oppose reunification What? Nothing you said in the previous sentence make any sense for reason of unification .
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- emmelaich 8y agoI would be happy to have Taiwan rule China.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago>>I would be happy to have Taiwan rule China. So convince the Chinese in mainland China and we can solve this without a shot being fired. Boeing etc will profit from this but Taiwan isn't going anywhere. Eventually a pro-China party will win and via... I wonder if USA has a way to brick the weapons we sold /are /will be selling to Taiwan if China takes over? No doubt Chinese spies are in all branches of Taiwan politics and military.
- digianarchist 8y agoPro-Bejing parties are now the majority of the legislative in Hong Kong. It's only a matter of time before the same happens in Taiwan and they fall under the S.A.R system. The fact that the KMT are considered China-friendly is hilarious considering the history of the Republic of China. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-politics/taiwan-rebukes-ruling-party-emboldens-china-friendly-opposition-idUSKCN1NU01L https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-politics/taiwan-re...
- tails4e 8y agoTaiwan has some leading tech companies, most notably TSMC who fabricate a huge portion of all ICs (chips) in the world. China has been investing a lot in building up it's own fabs, with some success - but still well behind TSMC. I wonder is part of this goal to take a strangle-hold on the world's technology manufacturing?
- slowmovintarget 8y agoYes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025 Helped along by consulting from McKinsey, of course.