8 ms·

I feel like the common idea that music nowadays is garbage compared to old stuff peaked in the 2000s and is actually on its way out. The internet and streaming

I feel like the common idea that music nowadays is garbage compared to old stuff peaked in the 2000s and is actually on its way out. The internet and streaming services have allowed people to get exposed to any sort of music. There's a lot of great stuff being made these days, and a lot greater variety. For a while things had reached maximum commercialism with incredible money being poured into promoting a small number of manufactured acts but it's very easy to ignore that nowadays.

friendly_chap 8y ago
It was garbage when people with money who controlled the distribution channels decided to also manufacture music bands, because it allowed them greater control and less costs. That all changed with the widespread availability of the internet.
- krapp 8y ago
  All that changed with the widespread availability of the internet is that now there's more garbage to spread around. There's more good music, simply because there's more music, but it's a matter of scale and of Sturgeon's Law - 90% of everything is still always garbage.
grawprog 8y ago
>I feel like the common idea that music nowadays is garbage compared to old stuff peaked in the 2000s. I dunno. There's always been garbage music. The 60's had it's own share of it. There were a lot of one hit wonder bands, radio and tv friendly music, lip synching and manufactured bands back then and all through the 70's, 80's and 90's. I think the problem is a lot of people don't remember it because it's garbage and gets overshadowed by the awesome music from those times. What seems to have happened is the process of manufacturing and distributing garbage commercial music was improved and refined over the decades to the point of complete saturation. Thankfully widespread internet adoption broke that stranglehold and you can find an amazing amount of music now. I have to listen to the radio at work though and it's just the same as it's always been...full of garbage.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Even the garbage used to have talent. Do you remember the band 'The Monkees'. They were a manufactured band ... and they had some talent.
  - pstuart 8y ago
    They did indeed (Michael Nesmith is still touring). But the Wrecking Crew had even more talent :-)
fullshark 8y ago
Disagree, streaming and Information Age made it more obvious that pop music since 2000 has basically been xerox copies of old songs and styles.
- freehunter 8y ago
  Pop music yes. All music no. Pop music of all generations has pretty consistently been trash, with a few exceptions that over time begin to overshadow the rest. Look at the pop single charts every year going back in time and find a generation where the majority of those songs are still considered classics.
aswanson 8y ago
It's a function of age, as expected. By definition, most music in any era is unexceptional. The only songs that resonate and last in memory is the good stuff, the crap gets forgotten. Integrate the function over time and there will be a big chunk of memory dedicated to exceptional (past) music and a small cache holding the current state with mostly crap and possibly 1 or 2 good songs.
- Retric 8y ago
  That suggest you can find an equal number of high quality popular songs in each year. Compare say top 25 from 1935, 1945 ... to 2015 and I don’t think that holds. Some of this is just taste, but I suspect the need to innovate coupled with endless copyright is forcing music into less generally accessible areas.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    Why, jazz from 1920-30s was incredible. It was also a relatively new thing as was radio and vinyl recording. It also allowed for a lot of experimentation. (BTW I listen to quite a few pieces composed about 300 years ago, and find them genuinely cool and engaging. But the filtering factor since then is huge.)
    - justboxing 8y ago
      > I listen to quite a few pieces composed about 300 years ago Where did you find these pieces? How was it recorded?
      - peter-m80 8y ago
        Bach, Beethoven, Chopin...
  - aswanson 8y ago
    People that were born in 1935 are in their 80s now and probably started listening to music in the early 50s. Any extension of the principle further back than the 50s doesn't apply to living humans and doesn't matter.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
I disagree. Crap music is more common than ever. In 2000 the 'gatekeepers' of music were still trying to promote legit acts, today, it's not the case. Have a look at this (Trippie Red) [1] It's truly crap and not just a function of age. The very low barriers to entry have allowed for crap to come through - secondarily, it means that young people don't spend years in their bedrooms anymore honing their craft, so you don't get a lot of virtuosos either just raw talent/creativity. There is quite a lot of good stuff out there but it's hard to find. There are very few good bands/groups that roll through town anymore. Imagine if you went down to the local theatre and saw this (Heart / Barracuda) [2] my god man that's raw. I go to shows occasionally now and it's a 'rapper' who says some things over a track. I saw BADBADNOTGOOD with Ghostface Killah, now that was spectacular, but usually even live rap is usually just karaoke. I went to a gig hailed as 'brazilian/european/american' fusion rap. It was a DJ who played some tracks and the 'rapper' didn't even rap. He just said 'heya' 'whaaaat' and 'wassup' a bunch of times over the rap track. I was incredulous. I wanted to go on stage and punch the talentless SOB. I felt so sad for the generation. 1968 was a big year because a) Rock was new. Rock as we know it was literally just being born. New instruments, new sounds. b) Lots of young people c) social movement i.e. hippies, summer of love etc. etc. - first time on tv etc. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrvN87l3s08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrvN87l3s08 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeMvMNpvB5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeMvMNpvB5M
- AllenWell 8y ago
  I agree that there is more crap now than ever. Music production software being available to basically everyone, along with platforms for their music to be released, has allowed even the most basic first song someone tries to sing to be viewed by anyone. But is that a bad thing? Some of these small artists eventually turn into super talented industry giants, and it's so motivating for kids to believe that they can be one of those people no matter who they are! If there is more crap out there that's alright with me, it means artists are being given the opportunity to at least try.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    Who are these super huge amazing artists full of talent? I can't think of any really. Because of all the crap - the 'talent' is now gone into show, entertainment, visuals etc, not anything remotely musical. Example: When Justin Bieber was young, his producer/backer Usher hired him a 'swagger coach' - to teach him how to be cool. Effectively - how to walk, talk, be chill. So Bieber honed is 'swagger' instead of honing any kind of musicianship, creativity or otherwise. Kids unfortunately don't want to be 'music stars' so much as they just want to be famous. 'Rapper/Musician' is just another form of Instagram star. Kanye is not that different from Kardashian. (FYI I do think Kanye is actually talented, and I also begrudgingly respect Kardashian's entertainment sensibilities). When Ariana Grande was 13 she walked into the label's office and told them she wanted to be a famous worldwide. And yes - there is actually a lot of innovation in production - production is now where a lot of the 'art' is as the producer matters more than anything else these days. The saddest part is that it's nary impossible for a 'good group' to make a decent living, or maybe to earn a nice buck for retirement because of course life is short for musicians. A few of them in the zeitgeist, but that's about it. Oh - a 'big name talent' I can think of is Bruno Mars. I thought his music was ridiculous until I saw them at the super bowl and was very impressed, looking into his background it's clear these guys are super talented, though fairly commercial as well. Low barriers + Commercialism have benefits: notably broader access and also the money/backing to do stuff. But they have really taken over and it's a problem sadly.

friendly_chap 8y ago

It was garbage when people with money who controlled the distribution channels decided to also manufacture music bands, because it allowed them greater control and less costs. That all changed with the widespread availability of the internet.

krapp 8y ago
All that changed with the widespread availability of the internet is that now there's more garbage to spread around. There's more good music, simply because there's more music, but it's a matter of scale and of Sturgeon's Law - 90% of everything is still always garbage.

grawprog 8y ago

>I feel like the common idea that music nowadays is garbage compared to old stuff peaked in the 2000s. I dunno. There's always been garbage music. The 60's had it's own share of it. There were a lot of one hit wonder bands, radio and tv friendly music, lip synching and manufactured bands back then and all through the 70's, 80's and 90's. I think the problem is a lot of people don't remember it because it's garbage and gets overshadowed by the awesome music from those times. What seems to have happened is the process of manufacturing and distributing garbage commercial music was improved and refined over the decades to the point of complete saturation. Thankfully widespread internet adoption broke that stranglehold and you can find an amazing amount of music now. I have to listen to the radio at work though and it's just the same as it's always been...full of garbage.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
Even the garbage used to have talent. Do you remember the band 'The Monkees'. They were a manufactured band ... and they had some talent.
- pstuart 8y ago
  They did indeed (Michael Nesmith is still touring). But the Wrecking Crew had even more talent :-)

fullshark 8y ago

Disagree, streaming and Information Age made it more obvious that pop music since 2000 has basically been xerox copies of old songs and styles.

freehunter 8y ago
Pop music yes. All music no. Pop music of all generations has pretty consistently been trash, with a few exceptions that over time begin to overshadow the rest. Look at the pop single charts every year going back in time and find a generation where the majority of those songs are still considered classics.

aswanson 8y ago

It's a function of age, as expected. By definition, most music in any era is unexceptional. The only songs that resonate and last in memory is the good stuff, the crap gets forgotten. Integrate the function over time and there will be a big chunk of memory dedicated to exceptional (past) music and a small cache holding the current state with mostly crap and possibly 1 or 2 good songs.

Retric 8y ago
That suggest you can find an equal number of high quality popular songs in each year. Compare say top 25 from 1935, 1945 ... to 2015 and I don’t think that holds. Some of this is just taste, but I suspect the need to innovate coupled with endless copyright is forcing music into less generally accessible areas.
- nine_k 8y ago
  Why, jazz from 1920-30s was incredible. It was also a relatively new thing as was radio and vinyl recording. It also allowed for a lot of experimentation. (BTW I listen to quite a few pieces composed about 300 years ago, and find them genuinely cool and engaging. But the filtering factor since then is huge.)
  - justboxing 8y ago
    > I listen to quite a few pieces composed about 300 years ago Where did you find these pieces? How was it recorded?
    - peter-m80 8y ago
      Bach, Beethoven, Chopin...
- aswanson 8y ago
  People that were born in 1935 are in their 80s now and probably started listening to music in the early 50s. Any extension of the principle further back than the 50s doesn't apply to living humans and doesn't matter.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

I disagree. Crap music is more common than ever. In 2000 the 'gatekeepers' of music were still trying to promote legit acts, today, it's not the case. Have a look at this (Trippie Red) [1] It's truly crap and not just a function of age. The very low barriers to entry have allowed for crap to come through - secondarily, it means that young people don't spend years in their bedrooms anymore honing their craft, so you don't get a lot of virtuosos either just raw talent/creativity. There is quite a lot of good stuff out there but it's hard to find. There are very few good bands/groups that roll through town anymore. Imagine if you went down to the local theatre and saw this (Heart / Barracuda) [2] my god man that's raw. I go to shows occasionally now and it's a 'rapper' who says some things over a track. I saw BADBADNOTGOOD with Ghostface Killah, now that was spectacular, but usually even live rap is usually just karaoke. I went to a gig hailed as 'brazilian/european/american' fusion rap. It was a DJ who played some tracks and the 'rapper' didn't even rap. He just said 'heya' 'whaaaat' and 'wassup' a bunch of times over the rap track. I was incredulous. I wanted to go on stage and punch the talentless SOB. I felt so sad for the generation. 1968 was a big year because a) Rock was new. Rock as we know it was literally just being born. New instruments, new sounds. b) Lots of young people c) social movement i.e. hippies, summer of love etc. etc. - first time on tv etc. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrvN87l3s08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrvN87l3s08 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeMvMNpvB5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeMvMNpvB5M

AllenWell 8y ago
I agree that there is more crap now than ever. Music production software being available to basically everyone, along with platforms for their music to be released, has allowed even the most basic first song someone tries to sing to be viewed by anyone. But is that a bad thing? Some of these small artists eventually turn into super talented industry giants, and it's so motivating for kids to believe that they can be one of those people no matter who they are! If there is more crap out there that's alright with me, it means artists are being given the opportunity to at least try.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Who are these super huge amazing artists full of talent? I can't think of any really. Because of all the crap - the 'talent' is now gone into show, entertainment, visuals etc, not anything remotely musical. Example: When Justin Bieber was young, his producer/backer Usher hired him a 'swagger coach' - to teach him how to be cool. Effectively - how to walk, talk, be chill. So Bieber honed is 'swagger' instead of honing any kind of musicianship, creativity or otherwise. Kids unfortunately don't want to be 'music stars' so much as they just want to be famous. 'Rapper/Musician' is just another form of Instagram star. Kanye is not that different from Kardashian. (FYI I do think Kanye is actually talented, and I also begrudgingly respect Kardashian's entertainment sensibilities). When Ariana Grande was 13 she walked into the label's office and told them she wanted to be a famous worldwide. And yes - there is actually a lot of innovation in production - production is now where a lot of the 'art' is as the producer matters more than anything else these days. The saddest part is that it's nary impossible for a 'good group' to make a decent living, or maybe to earn a nice buck for retirement because of course life is short for musicians. A few of them in the zeitgeist, but that's about it. Oh - a 'big name talent' I can think of is Bruno Mars. I thought his music was ridiculous until I saw them at the super bowl and was very impressed, looking into his background it's clear these guys are super talented, though fairly commercial as well. Low barriers + Commercialism have benefits: notably broader access and also the money/backing to do stuff. But they have really taken over and it's a problem sadly.