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Actually Marx never asserted that capitalism would collapse, just that it was naturally a boom-bust cycle with a general trend toward ever-bigger busts.

by rue 16y ago

jerf 16y ago
Marx's problem wasn't that his every criticism was wrong. His problem is that his proposed solution was orders of magnitude worse than what he was criticizing.
- rue 16y ago
  It makes a funny quip, sure, but there is really no way to tell at this point. Certainly most modern communists acknowledge that the totalitarian and undemocratic efforts in the USSR, China and elsewhere were misguided, to put it kindly.
  - anamax 16y ago
    Ah yes, no true Scotsman.... But, how do they acknowledge that "misguided"? The ones that I've run into will only go so far as "the excesses were caused by the US" and even then they weren't happy admitting to "excesses".
    - rue 16y ago
      Sounds like you hang out with the wrong kind of communists? I think anarcho-syndicalism is gaining ground.
      - anamax 16y ago
        > I think anarcho-syndicalism is gaining ground. One flavor of anarcho-syndicalism can exist without any acknowledgement of govt, let alone changes. (No law stops you from sharing.) What favors are you talking about?
cynicalkane 16y ago
What you describe is the core of Marx's assertion that capitalism would collapse, as described in Capital, hinted at in the Manifesto, and other things. In fact, as I recall, Marx's "proof" of capitalism's inevitable demise and the nature of the socialist aftermath was, as he wrote in a letter to Engels, his proudest and surest achievement. I wish I could find it, but apparently my Google-fu is lacking today.
- rue 16y ago
  > What you describe is the core of Marx's assertion that capitalism would collapse, […] No "final collapse" is asserted. A concerted effort is required to bring its demise. (Nowadays this is attempted through peaceful means rather than the earlier revolutions.)

Actually Marx never asserted that capitalism would collapse, just that it was naturally a boom-bust cycle with a general trend toward ever-bigger busts.

by rue 16y ago

Actually Marx never asserted that capitalism would collapse, just that it was naturally a boom-bust cycle with a general trend toward ever-bigger busts.

jerf 16y ago

Marx's problem wasn't that his every criticism was wrong. His problem is that his proposed solution was orders of magnitude worse than what he was criticizing.

rue 16y ago
It makes a funny quip, sure, but there is really no way to tell at this point. Certainly most modern communists acknowledge that the totalitarian and undemocratic efforts in the USSR, China and elsewhere were misguided, to put it kindly.
- anamax 16y ago
  Ah yes, no true Scotsman.... But, how do they acknowledge that "misguided"? The ones that I've run into will only go so far as "the excesses were caused by the US" and even then they weren't happy admitting to "excesses".
  - rue 16y ago
    Sounds like you hang out with the wrong kind of communists? I think anarcho-syndicalism is gaining ground.
    - anamax 16y ago
      > I think anarcho-syndicalism is gaining ground. One flavor of anarcho-syndicalism can exist without any acknowledgement of govt, let alone changes. (No law stops you from sharing.) What favors are you talking about?

cynicalkane 16y ago

What you describe is the core of Marx's assertion that capitalism would collapse, as described in Capital, hinted at in the Manifesto, and other things. In fact, as I recall, Marx's "proof" of capitalism's inevitable demise and the nature of the socialist aftermath was, as he wrote in a letter to Engels, his proudest and surest achievement. I wish I could find it, but apparently my Google-fu is lacking today.

rue 16y ago
> What you describe is the core of Marx's assertion that capitalism would collapse, […] No "final collapse" is asserted. A concerted effort is required to bring its demise. (Nowadays this is attempted through peaceful means rather than the earlier revolutions.)