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> People have told me they've been in the middle of a turn behind a Waymo car, when all of a sudden the car just randomly stops for no apparent reason, leaving

> People have told me they've been in the middle of a turn behind a Waymo car, when all of a sudden the car just randomly stops for no apparent reason, leaving them stranded in the middle of the intersection as the light turns red. How does that work? My driving experience is limited, and only in Australia, but I can't think of a situation where I'd be allowed to enter an intersection if there is already a car ahead of me that's still in it. Edit: I'm getting downvoted so maybe I didn't explain it right. Here's a quote from AU law: It is against the law to enter an intersection if you cannot drive through and into the road you plan to enter. However, when turning right, you can proceed into the intersection and wait near the centre of the intersection for the oncoming traffic to pass (as long as it is safe and the road you are turning into is clear). So from my POV it's pretty unfair to blame Waymo for getting stuck in a situation when it's only your law breaking that's making it so dangerous.

PakG1 8y ago
All you have to consider is the possibility that in some other regions of the world, that law doesn't exist and you're allowed to trail the car in front of you to make the turn you want. This is because for busy intersections, the closer you are to making the turn, the more chance you have of making it successfully. In general, there is greater throughput, and the safety risks are minimal because the yellow light signals for oncoming traffic to stop and gives enough time for everyone waiting to make the turn before it goes red (at least, that's what a yellow light is supposed to be, some people run it, and some people even run red lights). I take it that in Australia, you drive on the left side of the road? In North America, you drive on the right side of the road, so the logic would apply when you're turning left, not right.
- bicubic 8y ago
  The rule has nothing to do with the handedness of the traffic. The rule comes down to 'do not enter an intersection unless you are 100% sure you will clear it before the lights change'. If you enter an intersection so late that it's about to turn red while another car is waiting to turn, you're at fault, not the car in front of you for not turning sooner. The red light transition timing is set to allow one and only one car to exit the intersection before the other side has a green light to enter. The rule exists to prevent intersections from getting blocked by idiot drivers who enter too late and get stuck, which if not immediately cleared will cause gridlock to begin forming. I find it a bit hard to believe that such a rule doesn't exist in America.
  - mattbreeden 8y ago
    > The rule comes down to 'do not enter an intersection unless you are 100% sure you will clear it before the lights change'. Yes, that is how it's supposed to work here. But when you enter because there isn't any traffic coming and you assume the waymo vehicle will do the obvious and turn left, and then it just stops, it's very easy to get stuck out in the intersection behind it - in a situation that wouldn't happen with any human driver.
    - Operyl 8y ago
      Might I introduce you to South Florida then. Overly cautious 80+ year old drivers that cause accidents for being just too cautious/slow to react. That’s what the Waymo cars sound like right now.
  - PakG1 8y ago
    Seeing is believing. For example: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/when-turning-left-should-i-pull-into-the-intersection-to-wait-my-turn/article14205344/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commutin... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/is-it-illegal-for-two-cars-to-wait-in-an-intersection-to-make-a-left-turn/article29936809/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commutin... In Ontario, the law doesn't say where cars should wait when waiting to turn left at a green light. Apparently, that silence means a queue is allowed. In an e-mail, Ontario's Ministry of Transportation (MTO) tells Globe Drive that "more than one car is allowed to enter an intersection on a green light to line up to make a left turn, provided that the car's turn signal is on before it enters the intersection." But, beware of local bylaws. If an intersection has a sign that says "Do not block intersection," you shouldn't be waiting inside it to turn, police say. When I was driving (I don't really drive anymore), I found it common practice to queue in the intersection while waiting for a left turn. Although, I suppose counterexamples exist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdNWP6tmJHw&t=1m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdNWP6tmJHw&t=1m23s
  - Animats 8y ago
    It's a local option in the US. Large cities are stricter about it. Some large cities paint a big box on intersections and ticket people for blocking the box.
rjdagost 8y ago
I hear what you're saying about the letter of the law and all, but the fact of the matter is that at big intersections people don't drive that way in any country that I've been to. Waymo cars have an annoying tendency to just abruptly stop in the middle of intersections when they clearly have the right of way- scenarios when a human driver would rightfully not stop. So I do blame them for causing totally unnecessary traffic snags.

PakG1 8y ago

All you have to consider is the possibility that in some other regions of the world, that law doesn't exist and you're allowed to trail the car in front of you to make the turn you want. This is because for busy intersections, the closer you are to making the turn, the more chance you have of making it successfully. In general, there is greater throughput, and the safety risks are minimal because the yellow light signals for oncoming traffic to stop and gives enough time for everyone waiting to make the turn before it goes red (at least, that's what a yellow light is supposed to be, some people run it, and some people even run red lights). I take it that in Australia, you drive on the left side of the road? In North America, you drive on the right side of the road, so the logic would apply when you're turning left, not right.

bicubic 8y ago
The rule has nothing to do with the handedness of the traffic. The rule comes down to 'do not enter an intersection unless you are 100% sure you will clear it before the lights change'. If you enter an intersection so late that it's about to turn red while another car is waiting to turn, you're at fault, not the car in front of you for not turning sooner. The red light transition timing is set to allow one and only one car to exit the intersection before the other side has a green light to enter. The rule exists to prevent intersections from getting blocked by idiot drivers who enter too late and get stuck, which if not immediately cleared will cause gridlock to begin forming. I find it a bit hard to believe that such a rule doesn't exist in America.
- mattbreeden 8y ago
  > The rule comes down to 'do not enter an intersection unless you are 100% sure you will clear it before the lights change'. Yes, that is how it's supposed to work here. But when you enter because there isn't any traffic coming and you assume the waymo vehicle will do the obvious and turn left, and then it just stops, it's very easy to get stuck out in the intersection behind it - in a situation that wouldn't happen with any human driver.
  - Operyl 8y ago
    Might I introduce you to South Florida then. Overly cautious 80+ year old drivers that cause accidents for being just too cautious/slow to react. That’s what the Waymo cars sound like right now.
- PakG1 8y ago
  Seeing is believing. For example: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/when-turning-left-should-i-pull-into-the-intersection-to-wait-my-turn/article14205344/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commutin... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/is-it-illegal-for-two-cars-to-wait-in-an-intersection-to-make-a-left-turn/article29936809/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commutin... In Ontario, the law doesn't say where cars should wait when waiting to turn left at a green light. Apparently, that silence means a queue is allowed. In an e-mail, Ontario's Ministry of Transportation (MTO) tells Globe Drive that "more than one car is allowed to enter an intersection on a green light to line up to make a left turn, provided that the car's turn signal is on before it enters the intersection." But, beware of local bylaws. If an intersection has a sign that says "Do not block intersection," you shouldn't be waiting inside it to turn, police say. When I was driving (I don't really drive anymore), I found it common practice to queue in the intersection while waiting for a left turn. Although, I suppose counterexamples exist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdNWP6tmJHw&t=1m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdNWP6tmJHw&t=1m23s
- Animats 8y ago
  It's a local option in the US. Large cities are stricter about it. Some large cities paint a big box on intersections and ticket people for blocking the box.

rjdagost 8y ago

I hear what you're saying about the letter of the law and all, but the fact of the matter is that at big intersections people don't drive that way in any country that I've been to. Waymo cars have an annoying tendency to just abruptly stop in the middle of intersections when they clearly have the right of way- scenarios when a human driver would rightfully not stop. So I do blame them for causing totally unnecessary traffic snags.