5 ms·

A professional engineer has to pass a pretty rigorous test that takes every bit of 8 hours for most folks. I studied for hundreds of hours for mine (not kidding

A professional engineer has to pass a pretty rigorous test that takes every bit of 8 hours for most folks. I studied for hundreds of hours for mine (not kidding) and it took me two tries to pass. I know great engineers who are trying for the sixth time. Getting an engineering degree is really hard at most colleges. Passing the Fundamentals of Engineering exam is also challenging, but a joke compared to the P.E. exam. A professional engineer has both passed that test and worked for usually four years in industry according to most state laws and can testify in court as an expert. The commenter you quoted likely isn't being snarky, but trying to point that out. If Sweden has a completely different set of requirements, I would similarly not be able to practice in the same professional context there. This was rotten of Oregon, but there are generally laws like this to make sure everyone knows what to expect from an engineer. Of course it looks rediculous that a Swedish engineer wasn't allowed to point out a flawed system (I agree it is a violation of free speech), but they also can't take his background at face value, just like someone with a medical degree from Cuba probably can't practice medicine in the United States without going through licensing and taking classes to make sure the degrees truly are equivalent.

abduhl 8y ago
Let's not oversell the PE or the FE: I took both drunk and completed them in under 3 hours each. The true point of being a professional engineer is that you've satisfied the MINIMUM requirements to be licensed and, therefore, you are licensed by the state to sign off on documents within what you consider your expertise. It relies on you to make that determination with the understanding that you should know better, recognizing the legal and professional ramifications if you practice outside your expertise. I disagree with the Oregon ruling: holding yourself out as an engineer without licensure is not acceptable and should not be encouraged. It creates confusion amongst the public about what a licensed engineer is and who to trust. The guy could have easily put out his findings as an interested party or something without trying to invoke the goodwill that people like you and I have put so much effort into engendering.
- wonthegame 8y ago
  Don’t undersell it either. The minimum, as you pointed out, is safe. Your capitalization implies “it’s barely acceptable” and any engineer that has passed those tests would know this.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    It indicates they're not some random. (Or someone without conventional engineering education.) I guess an undergrad degree, a few years of experience, and the ability to pass an academic test does indicate at least some basic background but probably not a whole lot more.
  - abduhl 8y ago
    My capitalization means exactly what it says: someone with a license has met the minimum requirements from the state. Nothing else can be garnered from someone possessing a license. The minimum requirements have, historically, resulted in engineers who put out public facing designs that, more often than not, do not bring harm to the public. As someone who “has passed those tests” and been practicing for almost a decade, I can tell you first hand that sometimes the guy with a license who is actually at “the minimum” does not always put out something that is safe.
    - wonthegame 8y ago
      There's no need to put emphasis on it - unless your real motivation was to suggest the test is a joke. Which your claim to have been drunk and finished in nearly a third of the suggested time also implies.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  There isn't one legal definition and it was being used to silence a member of the public pointing out that they are stealing from the public by designing unsafe traffic lights.
- killaken2000 8y ago
  The whole 8 hour exam in under 3 hours?
lrem 8y ago
I have an engineering degree (masters level), but most places don't allow me to call myself an "engineer". I also have a PhD and same stands for "doctor". Oh well...
- wl 8y ago
  The funny thing about the medical community trying to monopolize the use of the term "doctor" is that physicians are rarely actually doctors themselves. While MD programs require a bachelor degree and certain prerequisite course work, the MD is the first degree someone can earn in medicine. Traditionally, the first earned medical degrees were bachelor degrees (MBBS) and that's a more honest way of doing things. Same thing with the JD (law). It's a renamed LLB undergraduate degree rather than a real doctorate. So congrats on actually being a doctor.
ip26 8y ago
He was not engaging in professional practice, it was civic practice. You don't need an economics degree to comment on a tax measure.
- abduhl 8y ago
  But if someone commenting on a tax measure claimed to be an accountant then you’d certainly think they were a licensed CPA, wouldn’t you?
  - logifail 8y ago
    No. If someone claims to be a licensed CPA, they are likely to be a licensed CPA. Look at what you need to do to become "an accountant" in the UK: https://www.ucas.com/ucas/after-gcses/find-career-ideas/explore-jobs/job-profile/accountant https://www.ucas.com/ucas/after-gcses/find-career-ideas/expl...

abduhl 8y ago

Let's not oversell the PE or the FE: I took both drunk and completed them in under 3 hours each. The true point of being a professional engineer is that you've satisfied the MINIMUM requirements to be licensed and, therefore, you are licensed by the state to sign off on documents within what you consider your expertise. It relies on you to make that determination with the understanding that you should know better, recognizing the legal and professional ramifications if you practice outside your expertise. I disagree with the Oregon ruling: holding yourself out as an engineer without licensure is not acceptable and should not be encouraged. It creates confusion amongst the public about what a licensed engineer is and who to trust. The guy could have easily put out his findings as an interested party or something without trying to invoke the goodwill that people like you and I have put so much effort into engendering.

wonthegame 8y ago
Don’t undersell it either. The minimum, as you pointed out, is safe. Your capitalization implies “it’s barely acceptable” and any engineer that has passed those tests would know this.
- ghaff 8y ago
  It indicates they're not some random. (Or someone without conventional engineering education.) I guess an undergrad degree, a few years of experience, and the ability to pass an academic test does indicate at least some basic background but probably not a whole lot more.
- abduhl 8y ago
  My capitalization means exactly what it says: someone with a license has met the minimum requirements from the state. Nothing else can be garnered from someone possessing a license. The minimum requirements have, historically, resulted in engineers who put out public facing designs that, more often than not, do not bring harm to the public. As someone who “has passed those tests” and been practicing for almost a decade, I can tell you first hand that sometimes the guy with a license who is actually at “the minimum” does not always put out something that is safe.
  - wonthegame 8y ago
    There's no need to put emphasis on it - unless your real motivation was to suggest the test is a joke. Which your claim to have been drunk and finished in nearly a third of the suggested time also implies.
michaelmrose 8y ago
There isn't one legal definition and it was being used to silence a member of the public pointing out that they are stealing from the public by designing unsafe traffic lights.
killaken2000 8y ago
The whole 8 hour exam in under 3 hours?

lrem 8y ago

I have an engineering degree (masters level), but most places don't allow me to call myself an "engineer". I also have a PhD and same stands for "doctor". Oh well...

wl 8y ago
The funny thing about the medical community trying to monopolize the use of the term "doctor" is that physicians are rarely actually doctors themselves. While MD programs require a bachelor degree and certain prerequisite course work, the MD is the first degree someone can earn in medicine. Traditionally, the first earned medical degrees were bachelor degrees (MBBS) and that's a more honest way of doing things. Same thing with the JD (law). It's a renamed LLB undergraduate degree rather than a real doctorate. So congrats on actually being a doctor.

ip26 8y ago

He was not engaging in professional practice, it was civic practice. You don't need an economics degree to comment on a tax measure.

abduhl 8y ago
But if someone commenting on a tax measure claimed to be an accountant then you’d certainly think they were a licensed CPA, wouldn’t you?
- logifail 8y ago
  No. If someone claims to be a licensed CPA, they are likely to be a licensed CPA. Look at what you need to do to become "an accountant" in the UK: https://www.ucas.com/ucas/after-gcses/find-career-ideas/explore-jobs/job-profile/accountant https://www.ucas.com/ucas/after-gcses/find-career-ideas/expl...