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It's ludicrous for Apple to state they somehow increased business for Netflix, because they allowed "sign-up" via iOS. That's like Google claiming they allowed

It's ludicrous for Apple to state they somehow increased business for Netflix, because they allowed "sign-up" via iOS. That's like Google claiming they allowed sign-up via chrome, or AT&T claiming they allowed sign up via their Network. Apple adds ZERO value via the app store, both for devs and for the consumers.

Rjevski 8y ago
Apple adds a lot of value via the App Store for initial app purchase/download. I agree they add very minimal value for recurring subscriptions, and their fee should be dialled back to be inline with what card processors charge (because they're essentially offering payment processing and not much else).
- hombre_fatal 8y ago
  The app store provides value to customers for recurring charges by being a MitM and offering an interface for recurring subscriptions. I can go to the recurring charges bit of the interface and see all the apps that can charge me. I never give CC info if I can help it. Once you give out your CC info, you have to be eternally vigilant because they can charge you on their terms. And to cancel, you have to hop through whichever hoops the company demands of you, like requiring a phone call. For example, I would never have taken up Youtube's 3-months-for-$1 trail last week if I had to insert my CC info. I was only open to the idea because it went through Apple's payment system and it's easy to see that I'll be billed in March if I don't trivially cancel the subscription from the iPhone interface. Since the app store billing system is the reason I coughed up the money to Youtube, it certainly makes sense for Apple to get some of that money. And I could make a case that they deserve a cut for the entire lifetime of my subscription.
  - eisa01 8y ago
    What about PayPal? Would you trust them? To me that's an equivalent service on the payment processing side
- Spooky23 8y ago
  I almost exclusively deal with subscriptions through Apple. Dealing with multiple vendors is a pain and Apple adds a high level of service and security. If you think your random app company is getting permission to do recurring billing, think again!
jedieaston 8y ago
You don't have to get your credit card out and hop to another website. Just download app, pick plan, and touch ID. Done.
wrkronmiller 8y ago
What Apple adds is non-zero. As the parent comment points out, Apple offers discovery, billing, and distribution. The App Store is a single (theoretically trusted) place for iOS users to search for apps. Let's not forget that, at least in theory, Apple curates the App Store. Neither Chrome nor AT&T does that in any substantial way. Furthermore, Apple's business model is different from Google/Android's. Android can be a loss-leader as long as it draws users to revenue-generating Google services. Last I checked, iOS was one of Apple's primary sources of revenue. In principle (if not practice) Apple's model is based on offering a privacy and security-centric platform. For the privilege of accessing it, you pay developer subscription fees and give Apple a cut of the money you make through your app. I think it's totally valid to argue what Apple offers is not worth the 15-30% cut. Either way, though, Apple is adding more than zero value.
- admax88q 8y ago
  Google curates the web via search and via chrome with malicious page warnings. Not 100% reliable, but they do effectively curate.
- zdragnar 8y ago
  > Apple offers discovery, billing, and distribution In the context of Netflix, I'm not sure that they're actually getting any value from any of those things from Apple, since they already have well-established pretty much everything in that area. I mean, sure, maybe someone had never heard of Netflix until they saw it in the app store, but I'm going to guess that number of people is well below even a blip in Netflix's revenue (especially given the universal 30% cut). Likewise, Netflix is pumping more bits around the internet than most other companies; distributing apps is only a benefit for them because they literally don't have an alternative option for iOS. For other, smaller companies, I would agree that it is non-zero, and I would also argue that 30% is way too much.
- goldcd 8y ago
  I'd agree - Apple handling payments/fraud/refunds and all the rest has value. Where they don't have a value proposition is with the larger providers of content. People turning up and wanting to buy your product (and not caring how it's provided to you) Same issue has been seen within PC gaming for many years - most consumers would quite happily add games to their Steam library - but Ubi, EA, Blizzard, Bethesda, Rockstar blah blah blah all nudge/command you to buy from their own shonky store.
nxc18 8y ago
Not having to deal with separate payment accounts is a huge value add at least for some consumers. I bought HBO to watch Westworld season 2 on Google play. If it wasn't that easy I would have made the effort to find someone's account - still easier than an account and payment workflow. HBO made at least.7x$40 from me.
- BonesJustice 8y ago
  Exactly. And Apple makes it easy when it comes to cancellation too: go to my Subscriptions screen, select the service, and click ‘cancel’. It doesn’t matter who provides the service—it’s always quick and easy. Granted, Netflix has always made it as easy to cancel as it is to sign up, so I don’t have an issue subscribing through them (and, in fact, I did). If I thought I’d have to deal with HBO (now owned by AT&T), I’d definitely think twice before subscribing through them. I don’t know what their normal cancellation policy is, but I generally refuse to deal with service providers that force me to call a support line, wait on hold, and then deal with some customer retention rep. Apart from Netflix, the only app where I’ll bypass Apple for purchases is Prime Video, and I’m put off enough by the process that I’ll only buy content through them that I can’t buy from iTunes.
briandear 8y ago
Except they do handle your billing, sales taxes (in every jurisdiction,) cancelations. They also deal with chargebacks as well. While a Netflix type company is perfectly capable of doing it themselves, it’s a stretch to say “ZERO” value or devs or consumers. As a consumer, so can go into my App Store account and instantly cancel any subscription. Try that with Angie’s List or any of the numerous newspapers (including The NY Times,) those places make you call in to cancel and it can be a big pain. Apple also ensures I don’t have to give my personal information to various companies, not to mention credit card information. When was the last time Apple’s credit card data has been breached? Compare that to many other companies. If Apple didn’t offer the subscription to various things, I’d be far less likely to subscribe. So at least in my anecdotal case, appStoreValue > 0.
- izacus 8y ago
  Netflix deals with all that already for all of their other platforms, so what does Apple add here except for duplication of work and 30% of tax?
- ken 8y ago
  Don't payment processors like Stripe handle billing, sales taxes across jurisdictions, cancellations, chargebacks, etc? And they charge 1/10th of what Apple does.
  - hombre_fatal 8y ago
    Stripe is only business-side. As a customer, I don't want to punch my CC info into every website. Netflix can get away with it because they're a ubiquitous household staple. But for almost every other service, being able to manage recurring payments from the app store interface is a big deal to me. Recurring charges are a nightmare otherwise. Being able to integrate with the app store is why I was willing to subscribe to most other apps at all.

Rjevski 8y ago

Apple adds a lot of value via the App Store for initial app purchase/download. I agree they add very minimal value for recurring subscriptions, and their fee should be dialled back to be inline with what card processors charge (because they're essentially offering payment processing and not much else).

hombre_fatal 8y ago
The app store provides value to customers for recurring charges by being a MitM and offering an interface for recurring subscriptions. I can go to the recurring charges bit of the interface and see all the apps that can charge me. I never give CC info if I can help it. Once you give out your CC info, you have to be eternally vigilant because they can charge you on their terms. And to cancel, you have to hop through whichever hoops the company demands of you, like requiring a phone call. For example, I would never have taken up Youtube's 3-months-for-$1 trail last week if I had to insert my CC info. I was only open to the idea because it went through Apple's payment system and it's easy to see that I'll be billed in March if I don't trivially cancel the subscription from the iPhone interface. Since the app store billing system is the reason I coughed up the money to Youtube, it certainly makes sense for Apple to get some of that money. And I could make a case that they deserve a cut for the entire lifetime of my subscription.
- eisa01 8y ago
  What about PayPal? Would you trust them? To me that's an equivalent service on the payment processing side
Spooky23 8y ago
I almost exclusively deal with subscriptions through Apple. Dealing with multiple vendors is a pain and Apple adds a high level of service and security. If you think your random app company is getting permission to do recurring billing, think again!

jedieaston 8y ago

You don't have to get your credit card out and hop to another website. Just download app, pick plan, and touch ID. Done.

wrkronmiller 8y ago

What Apple adds is non-zero. As the parent comment points out, Apple offers discovery, billing, and distribution. The App Store is a single (theoretically trusted) place for iOS users to search for apps. Let's not forget that, at least in theory, Apple curates the App Store. Neither Chrome nor AT&T does that in any substantial way. Furthermore, Apple's business model is different from Google/Android's. Android can be a loss-leader as long as it draws users to revenue-generating Google services. Last I checked, iOS was one of Apple's primary sources of revenue. In principle (if not practice) Apple's model is based on offering a privacy and security-centric platform. For the privilege of accessing it, you pay developer subscription fees and give Apple a cut of the money you make through your app. I think it's totally valid to argue what Apple offers is not worth the 15-30% cut. Either way, though, Apple is adding more than zero value.

admax88q 8y ago
Google curates the web via search and via chrome with malicious page warnings. Not 100% reliable, but they do effectively curate.
zdragnar 8y ago
> Apple offers discovery, billing, and distribution In the context of Netflix, I'm not sure that they're actually getting any value from any of those things from Apple, since they already have well-established pretty much everything in that area. I mean, sure, maybe someone had never heard of Netflix until they saw it in the app store, but I'm going to guess that number of people is well below even a blip in Netflix's revenue (especially given the universal 30% cut). Likewise, Netflix is pumping more bits around the internet than most other companies; distributing apps is only a benefit for them because they literally don't have an alternative option for iOS. For other, smaller companies, I would agree that it is non-zero, and I would also argue that 30% is way too much.
goldcd 8y ago
I'd agree - Apple handling payments/fraud/refunds and all the rest has value. Where they don't have a value proposition is with the larger providers of content. People turning up and wanting to buy your product (and not caring how it's provided to you) Same issue has been seen within PC gaming for many years - most consumers would quite happily add games to their Steam library - but Ubi, EA, Blizzard, Bethesda, Rockstar blah blah blah all nudge/command you to buy from their own shonky store.

nxc18 8y ago

Not having to deal with separate payment accounts is a huge value add at least for some consumers. I bought HBO to watch Westworld season 2 on Google play. If it wasn't that easy I would have made the effort to find someone's account - still easier than an account and payment workflow. HBO made at least.7x$40 from me.

BonesJustice 8y ago
Exactly. And Apple makes it easy when it comes to cancellation too: go to my Subscriptions screen, select the service, and click ‘cancel’. It doesn’t matter who provides the service—it’s always quick and easy. Granted, Netflix has always made it as easy to cancel as it is to sign up, so I don’t have an issue subscribing through them (and, in fact, I did). If I thought I’d have to deal with HBO (now owned by AT&T), I’d definitely think twice before subscribing through them. I don’t know what their normal cancellation policy is, but I generally refuse to deal with service providers that force me to call a support line, wait on hold, and then deal with some customer retention rep. Apart from Netflix, the only app where I’ll bypass Apple for purchases is Prime Video, and I’m put off enough by the process that I’ll only buy content through them that I can’t buy from iTunes.

briandear 8y ago

Except they do handle your billing, sales taxes (in every jurisdiction,) cancelations. They also deal with chargebacks as well. While a Netflix type company is perfectly capable of doing it themselves, it’s a stretch to say “ZERO” value or devs or consumers. As a consumer, so can go into my App Store account and instantly cancel any subscription. Try that with Angie’s List or any of the numerous newspapers (including The NY Times,) those places make you call in to cancel and it can be a big pain. Apple also ensures I don’t have to give my personal information to various companies, not to mention credit card information. When was the last time Apple’s credit card data has been breached? Compare that to many other companies. If Apple didn’t offer the subscription to various things, I’d be far less likely to subscribe. So at least in my anecdotal case, appStoreValue > 0.

izacus 8y ago
Netflix deals with all that already for all of their other platforms, so what does Apple add here except for duplication of work and 30% of tax?
ken 8y ago
Don't payment processors like Stripe handle billing, sales taxes across jurisdictions, cancellations, chargebacks, etc? And they charge 1/10th of what Apple does.
- hombre_fatal 8y ago
  Stripe is only business-side. As a customer, I don't want to punch my CC info into every website. Netflix can get away with it because they're a ubiquitous household staple. But for almost every other service, being able to manage recurring payments from the app store interface is a big deal to me. Recurring charges are a nightmare otherwise. Being able to integrate with the app store is why I was willing to subscribe to most other apps at all.