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Was it a mistake for Apply to set the precedent that they will not take action against large tech firms that do this? Regardless of what is a 'fair' fee, what

Was it a mistake for Apply to set the precedent that they will not take action against large tech firms that do this? Regardless of what is a 'fair' fee, what happens when the handful of apps that generate the vast majority of revenue move their transactions away from the marketplace? What is Apple/Google's next move?

ajross 8y ago
Continue to make money on selling hardware (Apple) and software licenses (Google), just less than they get now? There's no particular social good I can see that derives from the platform vendor getting a cut of customer activity. Historically, open systems have always been more successful than closed ones. It's no less true now than it was in the IBM vs. Unix days.
j1vms 8y ago
> What is Apple/Google's next move? Innovate. Cannibalize existing products. Surprise us. Unless they want to attract more of the "business" types that will suck them dry until they end up, one day, a long time from now... like Sears.
brown9-2 8y ago
The move should be to do nothing, or offer better terms to companies, as just about every other move harms consumers.
notatoad 8y ago
Apple's next move is to compete by charging reasonable rates, instead of completely unreasonable ones. Netflix is a low chargeback risk, high volume customer and should expect to be paying 1.5-2% for an initial charge and even less for continued payments on the same card. Apple is charging 30% for the first year of payments and 15% after that. 30% is reasonable for an app from an unknown dev where the platform might have to eat a large refund after the dev disappears and the app turns out to have been a scam. charging that same rate to netflix for subscription payments is price gouging, plain and simple. As the article says, apple was making somewhere on the order of $700k per day off Netflix's transaction fees. For doing basically nothing. Netflix is obviously willing to pay more than basic credit card processing fees for the convenience factor of having in-app billing on iOS, so all apple needs to do to keep that business is to be willing to negotiate.
- tomp 8y ago
  What do you mean, “refund”? Is there a way to request a refund for an app you bought? AFAIK there’s no way to “trial” an app...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - suninwinter 8y ago
    https://m.imore.com/how-to-get-refund-itunes-app-store https://m.imore.com/how-to-get-refund-itunes-app-store tl;dr Go to http://reportaproblem.apple.com/ http://reportaproblem.apple.com/, sign in and pick the app that you want a refund for. Then fill out the questionnaire.
  - ronsor 8y ago
    Apple lets you manually request a refund in certain cases.
  - notatoad 8y ago
    https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204084 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204084
  - beerlord 8y ago
    I just get 'This purchase is not eligible for a refund.' This is why people don't purchase games on iOS. I bought Kingdom Rush: Vengenace for $4.99, it turned out to be full of pay2win microtransactions, and I quit playing after 20 minutes. No way to refund, money down the drain. Steam provides a much better service.
- briandear 8y ago
  How is Netflix a low chargeback risk? I am curious about the data on this.
magnetic 8y ago
They could: - adjust the revenue share percentage to match the perceived value (convenience/UX mostly, but there are others such as marketing, chargeback protection, etc...) - play hard ball by rejecting apps that "don't comply with our seamless guidelines on the user experience" - make deals on a case by case basis (ie "if your rev is > $X millions, contact us") or have a volume discount on the revenue share percentage It all boils down to the same "cost vs value" perception, and that isn't uniform across all apps/developers so it's not very surprising that the "one size fits all" is starting to show its limits.
scarface74 8y ago
They don’t “take action” against any firm that does this. You’ve always been allowed to have subscriptions off the platform you just couldn’t link to the website. Unless you consider ACloudGuru for instance “large”.
Steko 8y ago
Apple's next move is to have a credible replacement for when Netflix tries to move existing customers, the same as they have for Spotify. Or perhaps they are just waiting for the media companies to be more vulnerable to their lowball offers.
beerlord 8y ago
Match Epic Games: 12/88 split for all revenue going through the store. Maintain annual fee to have a developer account. Charge a $500 'listing fee' to list your app, with a $100 annual payment per app unless certain revenue tiers are met (app is de-listed if not paid). Allow for easier refund procedures (like Steam) and reduce the minimum price down to $0.50. Its a mature platform now, time to go for a higher quality level with fewer, more professional apps.

ajross 8y ago

Continue to make money on selling hardware (Apple) and software licenses (Google), just less than they get now? There's no particular social good I can see that derives from the platform vendor getting a cut of customer activity. Historically, open systems have always been more successful than closed ones. It's no less true now than it was in the IBM vs. Unix days.

j1vms 8y ago

> What is Apple/Google's next move? Innovate. Cannibalize existing products. Surprise us. Unless they want to attract more of the "business" types that will suck them dry until they end up, one day, a long time from now... like Sears.

brown9-2 8y ago

The move should be to do nothing, or offer better terms to companies, as just about every other move harms consumers.

notatoad 8y ago

Apple's next move is to compete by charging reasonable rates, instead of completely unreasonable ones. Netflix is a low chargeback risk, high volume customer and should expect to be paying 1.5-2% for an initial charge and even less for continued payments on the same card. Apple is charging 30% for the first year of payments and 15% after that. 30% is reasonable for an app from an unknown dev where the platform might have to eat a large refund after the dev disappears and the app turns out to have been a scam. charging that same rate to netflix for subscription payments is price gouging, plain and simple. As the article says, apple was making somewhere on the order of $700k per day off Netflix's transaction fees. For doing basically nothing. Netflix is obviously willing to pay more than basic credit card processing fees for the convenience factor of having in-app billing on iOS, so all apple needs to do to keep that business is to be willing to negotiate.

tomp 8y ago
What do you mean, “refund”? Is there a way to request a refund for an app you bought? AFAIK there’s no way to “trial” an app...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- suninwinter 8y ago
  https://m.imore.com/how-to-get-refund-itunes-app-store https://m.imore.com/how-to-get-refund-itunes-app-store tl;dr Go to http://reportaproblem.apple.com/ http://reportaproblem.apple.com/, sign in and pick the app that you want a refund for. Then fill out the questionnaire.
- ronsor 8y ago
  Apple lets you manually request a refund in certain cases.
- notatoad 8y ago
  https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204084 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204084
- beerlord 8y ago
  I just get 'This purchase is not eligible for a refund.' This is why people don't purchase games on iOS. I bought Kingdom Rush: Vengenace for $4.99, it turned out to be full of pay2win microtransactions, and I quit playing after 20 minutes. No way to refund, money down the drain. Steam provides a much better service.
briandear 8y ago
How is Netflix a low chargeback risk? I am curious about the data on this.

magnetic 8y ago

They could: - adjust the revenue share percentage to match the perceived value (convenience/UX mostly, but there are others such as marketing, chargeback protection, etc...) - play hard ball by rejecting apps that "don't comply with our seamless guidelines on the user experience" - make deals on a case by case basis (ie "if your rev is > $X millions, contact us") or have a volume discount on the revenue share percentage It all boils down to the same "cost vs value" perception, and that isn't uniform across all apps/developers so it's not very surprising that the "one size fits all" is starting to show its limits.

scarface74 8y ago

They don’t “take action” against any firm that does this. You’ve always been allowed to have subscriptions off the platform you just couldn’t link to the website. Unless you consider ACloudGuru for instance “large”.

Steko 8y ago

Apple's next move is to have a credible replacement for when Netflix tries to move existing customers, the same as they have for Spotify. Or perhaps they are just waiting for the media companies to be more vulnerable to their lowball offers.

beerlord 8y ago

Match Epic Games: 12/88 split for all revenue going through the store. Maintain annual fee to have a developer account. Charge a $500 'listing fee' to list your app, with a $100 annual payment per app unless certain revenue tiers are met (app is de-listed if not paid). Allow for easier refund procedures (like Steam) and reduce the minimum price down to $0.50. Its a mature platform now, time to go for a higher quality level with fewer, more professional apps.