4 ms·

I think you underestimate the knowledge and training to do dental work safely.

seibelj 8y ago
Maine allowed a special license for hygienists to do extra procedures, including cavity drilling (if a real dentist is in the building). It is going fine so far. https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/04/independent-dental-hygienists-may-fill-a-void-but-not-a-cavity/ https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/04/independent-dental-hy... However, getting the law changed to allow this has been fought tooth-and-nail, so to speak: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-unexpected-political-power-of-dentists/2017/07/01/ee946d56-54f3-11e7-a204-ad706461fa4f_story.html?utm_term=.bf37fdd0b088 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-unexpected-polit... Like all licensed professionals, dentists are part of a cartel ("guild"). Some guilds are better than others for their members and/or consumers.
- AmericanChopper 8y ago
  I think of those guilds more as the most effective unions in the world. The reason lawyers, doctors, pilots, etc... are paid so well is because they’ve successfully limited entry into their fields. They’ve all got arduous entry requirements, and you can’t operate without the unions blessing. It’s simple supply and demand after that point.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Two of the three fields you mention are not paid especially well on average.
    - stochastic_monk 8y ago
      All three have median salaries of 6 figures.
      - ghaff 8y ago
        Senior pilots for the major carriers are reasonably well compensated though not usually at levels that the typical FAANG developer would get out of bed for (likely $100-200K). Many regional pilots earn less than $50K and first officers less. Partners at big city law firms are obviously very well-compensated. But the glut of lawyers has been something of a story in recent years and employment difficulties/low salaries for graduates of second and third tier schools are the norm. Neither of these professions are examples of highly constrained supply except to the degree that there are only so many ex-military pilots and Ivy League law review grads.
      - gowld 8y ago
        "Pilot" does not have median salary of 6 figures. "Commercial jet pilot" has median salary of 6 figures. That is not an entry-level pilot position.
    - loeg 8y ago
      Pilots have an extremely high hourly rate if you discount the time autopilot is engaged (and senior pilots make a lot more than junior pilots).
      - lotsofpulp 8y ago
        The quality of life hit is huge being away from home, sitting all the time, working nights, solar radiation, and having to work your way up in seniority in an industry that has a lot of ups and down.
        loeg 8y ago
        Sure — but I think the original argument — that the pilot's union has artificially kept pay relatively high — is valid. Truck drivers have a very similar job but worse compensation (especially comparing senior workers).
        hodgesrm 8y ago
        With all due respect to the folks who drive 18-wheelers, flying a passenger aircraft and operating a truck require very different levels of training. Relatively small mistakes in operating an aircraft can have very serious consequences for large numbers of passengers. Example: crew reacted incorrectly to autopilot problems following pitot tube obstruction by ice on AF 447 and stalled the aircraft, leading to death of all on board. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447
        AmericanChopper 8y ago
        I don’t think you’ll find a strict correlation between level of training required, and salaries. There’s plenty of highly trained people with low salaries. I’d also be willing to bet that trucking accidents kill more people than airline ones.
        AnimalMuppet 8y ago
function_seven 8y ago
It's still possible to subdivide a broad field and allow less-skilled people to do individual parts. For a cavity, I could see a DDS diagnosing it and also determining that their Certified Carries Tech can handle it on their own. They pass the work off and move to the next patient. To keep things safe, require a dentist to be available if the need arises.
roenxi 8y ago
On the flip side, most people underestimate the knowledge and training required to do any work at all safely. Not 1 in 10 men I've seen climbing a ladder have done so in a safe manner. If someone has not done a procedure before, I don't trust them regardless of their qualification. If they have done a procedure 100 times, I trust them unless their track record is terrible. I certainly don't think the government needs to enforce these standards the way they do, occupational licensing is not the answer. Information and voluntary schemes would be a lot cheaper, and probably lead to similar quality.

Maine allowed a special license for hygienists to do extra procedures, including cavity drilling (if a real dentist is in the building). It is going fine so far. https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/04/independent-dental-hygienists-may-fill-a-void-but-not-a-cavity/ https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/04/independent-dental-hy... However, getting the law changed to allow this has been fought tooth-and-nail, so to speak: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-unexpected-political-power-of-dentists/2017/07/01/ee946d56-54f3-11e7-a204-ad706461fa4f_story.html?utm_term=.bf37fdd0b088 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-unexpected-polit... Like all licensed professionals, dentists are part of a cartel ("guild"). Some guilds are better than others for their members and/or consumers.

AmericanChopper 8y ago
I think of those guilds more as the most effective unions in the world. The reason lawyers, doctors, pilots, etc... are paid so well is because they’ve successfully limited entry into their fields. They’ve all got arduous entry requirements, and you can’t operate without the unions blessing. It’s simple supply and demand after that point.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Two of the three fields you mention are not paid especially well on average.
  - stochastic_monk 8y ago
    All three have median salaries of 6 figures.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      Senior pilots for the major carriers are reasonably well compensated though not usually at levels that the typical FAANG developer would get out of bed for (likely $100-200K). Many regional pilots earn less than $50K and first officers less. Partners at big city law firms are obviously very well-compensated. But the glut of lawyers has been something of a story in recent years and employment difficulties/low salaries for graduates of second and third tier schools are the norm. Neither of these professions are examples of highly constrained supply except to the degree that there are only so many ex-military pilots and Ivy League law review grads.
    - gowld 8y ago
      "Pilot" does not have median salary of 6 figures. "Commercial jet pilot" has median salary of 6 figures. That is not an entry-level pilot position.
  - loeg 8y ago
    Pilots have an extremely high hourly rate if you discount the time autopilot is engaged (and senior pilots make a lot more than junior pilots).
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      The quality of life hit is huge being away from home, sitting all the time, working nights, solar radiation, and having to work your way up in seniority in an industry that has a lot of ups and down.
      - loeg 8y ago
        Sure — but I think the original argument — that the pilot's union has artificially kept pay relatively high — is valid. Truck drivers have a very similar job but worse compensation (especially comparing senior workers).
        hodgesrm 8y ago
        With all due respect to the folks who drive 18-wheelers, flying a passenger aircraft and operating a truck require very different levels of training. Relatively small mistakes in operating an aircraft can have very serious consequences for large numbers of passengers. Example: crew reacted incorrectly to autopilot problems following pitot tube obstruction by ice on AF 447 and stalled the aircraft, leading to death of all on board. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447
        AmericanChopper 8y ago
        I don’t think you’ll find a strict correlation between level of training required, and salaries. There’s plenty of highly trained people with low salaries. I’d also be willing to bet that trucking accidents kill more people than airline ones.
        AnimalMuppet 8y ago

function_seven 8y ago

It's still possible to subdivide a broad field and allow less-skilled people to do individual parts. For a cavity, I could see a DDS diagnosing it and also determining that their Certified Carries Tech can handle it on their own. They pass the work off and move to the next patient. To keep things safe, require a dentist to be available if the need arises.

roenxi 8y ago

On the flip side, most people underestimate the knowledge and training required to do any work at all safely. Not 1 in 10 men I've seen climbing a ladder have done so in a safe manner. If someone has not done a procedure before, I don't trust them regardless of their qualification. If they have done a procedure 100 times, I trust them unless their track record is terrible. I certainly don't think the government needs to enforce these standards the way they do, occupational licensing is not the answer. Information and voluntary schemes would be a lot cheaper, and probably lead to similar quality.