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Ask HN: Is moving to SV/SF Bay Area still worth it?
I am a data scientist currently working for a startup (c. 11 months) in London. Before that I completed a PhD in computational chemistry.
I have recently been offered a move back into academia as a postdoc at Stanford. I’m not overly enjoying working at the startup in London and I have always wanted to experience working abroad. I’m not sure I want to work in academia in the long term but a postdoc at Stanford seems like a good stepping stone towards industry in the Bay Area. One obvious downside is that the postdoc salary seems terrible for the area ($70k).
My question is, is moving to SF/Bay Area still worth it? House prices and COL in general seem insane but opportunities and salary also seem relatively unbounded. I feel that now is the right moment in my life to move abroad and perhaps it is worth “slogging” through a postdoc to get to better opportunities in SF on the other side. I’ve explored other cities but the level of opportunities seem to be on par or worse than London (e.g. Toronto, Montreal) or the cities are very difficult to emigrate to for a Brit.
- jmcminis 8y agoYes. You should go. The job market is so much better. You will probably have a choice of high paying, interesting offers when you choose to leave your postdoc. I did a postdoc in computational chemistry/condensed matter physics at LLNL and transitioned into industry in SF five years ago. I worked at two high growth startups and was promoted a few times. I got very lucky in picking good companies and got in as an early employee (around 10 each time). I gained a world of knowlege and experience in just a few years. Now I take that experience with me wherever I go. I would do it again in a heartbeat. The options you have from Stanford will likely be as good or better than mine were. Best of luck!
- curtis 8y agoOther than housing the cost of living in the Bay Area isn't drastically different than other large metro areas in the US. If you're coming from London, I expect you'll find everything to be cheaper. Also the climate will be a lot nicer.
- sp527 8y agoIt's probably worth it to go there and bank money for a while on the most efficient CoL situation you can manage (and especially to get Stanford on your resume). With the caveat that the above is definitely the rational thing to do, I will note that I chose not to do it because I couldn't live in that region. Doesn't quite jive with my personality or what I wanted in life or out of my career. So I accepted a haircut on what I could do monetarily, lived elsewhere, and orchestrated a much more unorthodox career progression. I felt okay with doing that because I'm more or less unconcerned with finding opportunities or generating sufficient wealth in the long run, so maximizing life satisfaction while I'm still young became the priority. From what you wrote, I feel like you're probably in a very similar situation. You're likely to get a lot of people endorsing SF, so I'll play devil's advocate and list some things that are imo better in NYC and/or LA (Santa Monica) than in SF: (1) Dating and relationships. The gender ratios are more favorable for men in both LA and NYC, and it's just easier in general in my experience. (2) Culture and nightlife. Vastly superior in both LA and NYC. (3) For LA specifically: the weather and proximity to the beach. The other nice thing about LA is that you don't give up on the outdoors advantage of being in California either (Norcal is admittedly great too). NYC is a lot worse for both weather and options for adventuring in nature. (4) For Santa Monica specifically: extremely relaxed atmosphere and an emphasis on wellbeing and just plain enjoying life. This has influenced me personally for the better. YMMV. (5) Diversity of people. The Bay Area has definitely become a lot more homogeneous in a way that I find troubling. But by contrast there are some who can't suffer people who think or behave very differently or even irrationally (for example some person enmeshed in Hollywood or in high finance), whereas I feel invigorated by meeting people who are very different from myself, even if I believe they're flawed. YMMV. (6) Availability of technical talent. It's useful to be in a market of talented people with fewer options in case you ever feel like you want to try to build something on your own. (7) Cost of living. Slight advantages to be had in NYC or LA, depending on how well you optimize. However, the Bay almost always wins on questions of net income. You can pull some very juicy comp packages in NYC and LA too, and get very close to a wash, if you know how to play the market. (8) Entrepreneurial opportunity. You're more likely to come across an interesting corner of the world that hasn't been tapped by technologists outside of the Bay Area. (9) Demand for your capabilities. Tech talent is rarer/sparser outside of the Bay Area and you're consequently a more coveted asset. This goes well beyond career leverage. It's easier to find serendipitous opportunities to meet, help, and even join in something outside the Bay Area partly for this reason. I'm going to reiterate that the above is my opinion. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me on much of what I said.
- webmaven 8y ago> The gender ratios are more favorable for men in both LA and NYC, and it's just easier in general in my experience. You're assuming the OP is a cishet male. Odds are that you're probably right, but I wouldn't simply assume that. > For LA specifically: the weather [...] I don't think LA weather (particularly in the summer) is likely to appeal to the average Londoner more than the weather in the Bay Area.
- fjames 8y agoGood points although the cishet male assumption is correct.
- firemelt 8y agoAny tips for people from SEA to work as software engineer in SV/SF? I just graduated from private university in my country always dreaming about founding my own startups but I also want to try to working in startup in SV/SF even if just as an intern
- randomacct3847 8y agoHousing costs are overstated for single people IMO. If you are single, want to live in SF, and okay with a roommate then it’s not hard to find a rent-controlled room (70% of rentals in SF are rent-controlled) and pay $1600-$2000.
- fbonawiede 8y ago2k per month for a rent controlled room? On a salary of 70k pre tax, 2k per month is roughly half of the income.
- chris11 8y ago> okay with a roommate That's a really big caveat. Most places you don't need to spend that much for a one bedroom apartment.
- jryan49 8y agoPaying $1600-$2000 with a roommate is insane IMO.
- fjames 8y agoWhen you (Americans) say roommate do you mean someone that you share a room with or a flat with?
- 80mph 8y agoIn the Bay area, "roommate" is generally used to refer to someone you share an apartment (flat) with.
- 80mph 8y agoStanford is in Palo Alto, where rent-controlled apartments are pretty much non-existent. I wouldn't advise an SF->PA commute to a newcomer. You'd have to restrict your housing search to sites within a reasonable walking/biking distance to the Caltrain. Much easier to just focus on something that's within a reasonable walking/biking distance of Stanford.
- masonic 8y agoIs below-market on campus housing an option?
- fjames 8y agoUnfortunately not an option.
- fakeElonMusk 8y agoDo it. Just having Stanford on your resume is justification enough IMO. And yes, then you will have many opportunities. Plus the weather (when the wildfires aren't raging) is so much better. I don't think a commute from SF is that bad. I took Caltrain to San Mateo from SF for a year and there were a few delayed or canceled trains but otherwise it was fine. Ok, full disclosure it's packed and loud for Giants games so that does kinda suck. The Palo Alto stop is 5 minutes from campus. As another commenter mentioned, you would want to live close to the train station in SF (Mission Bay, Potrero) otherwise your commute will suck - for example, getting from Sunset or Richmond to Caltrain is a pain.