8 ms·

'Climate grief': The growing emotional toll of climate change

32 points by uptown 8y ago

malvosenior 8y ago
I think people are internalizing what is essentially a macro issue down to the personal level. In reality, individuals are likely to be fine. We're not going to wake up one day and be instantly vaporized. The section about people not wanting to have children because of climate change is really shocking. I find it crazy that people would literally weed themselves out of the gene pool on the idea that the planet will be uninhabitable in the very near future. Humans are resilient, humans solve problems, humans have technology. Maybe this will push us to go to space sooner than we would have? Maybe we'll create underground cities? This is an opportunity to advance human technology and society, not the time to throw in the towel and commit genetic suicide. Thankfully I think most people wouldn't do that, it's just that doesn't make for compelling clickbait so those thoughts didn't get included in this article.
- Fricken 8y ago
  You're not going to weed yourself out of the gene pool by not having kids. Your genetic material is widely distributed amongst 7.7 billion other people.
- XJOKOLAT 8y ago
  PEOPLE ARE FUCKING DYING NOW, BRO ... this dick talking about vaporization ... Pricks ... Is what I would have said.
- mycorrhizal 8y ago
  I agree with you on the having kids issue, but I disagree that individuals should just treat it as a macro problem. Even in the US (where I live) there is planning you can do on an individual level to help you avoid some of the negative consequences of climate change. I actually think this would be an interesting discussion on HN. Some of the steps that I think are most important concern mainly where you choose to live for a specific example Miami could fare very badly wrt to flooding and increased storms. I can't imagine that will be good for property values not to mention safety. I would be interested to read about anyone else's suggestions on what plans someone could make on an individual level for both themselves and their children.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    I agree. People should be informed and responsible. Adaptation is going to require a lot of changes. Might as well acknowledge them and start dealing with them (as you suggest). I found the article to be anything but responsible though. More like hysterical.
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  > We're not going to wake up one day and be instantly vaporized. Nice strawman. No one ever said we're going to "wake up and be instantly vaporized". What's actually going to happen is this: - Food is going to continuously get more expensive as droughts shorten growing seasons, desertification and flooding eliminate arable land, the ocean depopulates, and increased atmospheric CO2 "de-nutrients" the crops that do grow. - We're going to rack up unbelievable debt trying to either migrate people out of flood zones or try to delay their immersion. I've said before that once Miami starts flooding enough that people can no longer stick their heads in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong, Florida real estate owners will probably demand some ultra-expensive engineering megaproject to try and save the city on the taxpayers' dime. The same will happen in every other low-lying coastal region. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12342617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12342617 quotes a figure of $180 million just to migrate 600 people in Alaska; now multiply that by the size of the population in coastal areas and get a glimpse of the hole we're driving into. - Building on that last point, human migration is going to increase dramatically as people try to escape more affected regions for better-off ones. The current level of migration, relatively tiny all things considered, is already causing fatal autoimmune reactions in Europe and North America, and it's going to increase by orders of magnitude. Not to mention the additional unrest when the wealthy inevitably retreat to (literal or metaphorical) walled cities to escape the problem. - The above factors of resource scarcity, political unrest, and finger-pointing are going to cause global wars. So yes, this will affect all of us on the personal level of having a lower standard of living in a world of permanent social turmoil. It is not going to be fine. > Maybe this will push us to go to space sooner than we would have? Maybe we'll create underground cities? This is an opportunity to advance human technology and society, Even disregarding that your own use of the word "maybe" already indicates a certain amount of hopelessness about the situation, this is a fallacy of "just because circumstances forced us to develop this technology, that technology is a Good Thing and represents societal progress". I don't want to live underground or in space, I want to live on a healthy planet with lots of open space and diverse environments. At the very best, either of these options would be like spending your entire life in a climate-controlled office building. I'd prefer death.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    > What's actually going to happen is this: I don't think anyone knows what's going to happen. Definitely not extrapolated out as far as you have.
- c0nducktr 8y ago
  I'm sorry, but being pushed to living in space or underground sooner rather than later doesn't sound like something we should look at as a good thing. Most people don't want to do those things.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    It's inevitable that we'll have to go to space someday if we want to human race to survive. "Good" or "bad" has nothing to do with it.
rdtsc 8y ago
> “The emotional reaction of my kids was severe,” she told NBC News. “There was a lot of crying. They told me, 'We know what’s coming, and it’s going to be really rough.’ “ It depends how she presented the report to her children. Did she just let them watch the news or read it to them. Children pick up the emotional state and anxiety of their parents, and they don't necessarily know how to deal with it. If her children are having panic attacks over it, not sure global warming is to blame as much as she is. If there wasn't this issue chances are her children would be having panic attacks over globalization, open air slave markets in Libya, how police treat minorities, famine, etc.
- Flozzin 8y ago
  I agree. I'm not saying you down play the threat, but you have to realize that children are not adults. Almost everything is a new experience to them. And they do not have the tools in order to deal with the emotions. I was pretty annoyed when my partner's 2 kids came home from school in a complete tizzy over the presidential election. I'm not sure if it was from their friends or their teachers. But they were practically crying, thinking everything was going to fall apart.(It wasn't from either of us) You have to be very careful about how and what you tell to kids. Especially since something like the presidential election or climate change just isn't something they can truly have an affect on yet.
  - bryanlarsen 8y ago
    I remember being completely devastated when I learned that the sun was going to explode in 5 billion years time.
    - Flozzin 8y ago
      That's funny. That still makes me sad to this day. But I was pretty broken up over it too. Somehow the fact that I will have been long dead did not matter.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
vixen99 8y ago
As in https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/7344329/Baby-survives-parents-global-warming-suicide-pact.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/arge...
diafygi 8y ago
This article is likely to get heavily down-weighted on HN, so before that happens, I guess it's that time again for a what-can-you-do-about-it post :) To start, here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" ==So what can you do about it?== I work in cleantech, and you should, too! Solar and wind are economical, so now the biggest issue is scaling them up. That means tons and tons of problem solving, which means great tech and engineering jobs! If you think about it, the switch to renewables means we need to deal with situations where the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing, yet still keep the lights on. That means you have to build in a ton of storage and load control, which means good communication and analysis, which means software! Something like half of the impact of the energy transition will be done through software optimizing the deployment and operation of clean energy assets. Anyway, please check out my previous comments on recommendations when looking for climate impact work[1]. Also, working in cleantech can significantly reduce the feelings described in this article. Think of it like exercise. By working at it, your body naturally replaces anxiety with optimism and motivation. Physically doing something to fight your anxiety will make you feel better. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154
- srdev 8y ago
  Is there much in the way of software development and data engineering? I clicked on some of your links but the focus was on engineering jobs involved with building the physical infrastructure, which sort-of matches my expectations. But it also means theres not much I can reasonably do to contribute.
  - diafygi 8y ago
    Absolutely! Most distributed battery storage (Stem, Advanced Microgrid, etc.) and building energy management companies (Carbon Lighthouse, Siemens, etc.) have software divisions that focus on data analysis tools for their customers (think energy dashboards and reports). Also, most grid operators (CAISO, etc.), utilities (PG&E, etc.), and utility vendors (AutoGrid, etc.) have data analysis divisions that focus on figuring out how we can keep the grid running while ramping up renewables. Finally, regulators (Dept of Energy, public utility commissions, city managers, etc.) are in desperate need of data science talent to help them understand all this new energy advancements that are going on (often at policy hearings utilities are saying one technical thing, distributed energy companies are saying another technical thing, and the panel of regulators have no idea what the technical implications of all this back-and-forth is). Hope that helps! Maybe you can try searching typical software job boards (Indeed, etc.) for your language of choice + keywords (clean energy, solar, renewables, smart grid, climate change, etc.).
caublestone 8y ago
In decline and fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbons focuses a lot on the people’s climate fears. The people believed that there was nothing that could be done and that they deserved nature’s wrath. In the 1600s, Lisbon was leveled by an earthquake. Some thought that God was punishing them others saw it as an opportunity to rebuild and grow stronger. Today, Lisbon is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I pray for people to end the fear and believe in a bigger future. Happy new year.
dbingham 8y ago
I don't think anyone commenting on this post who is downplaying the reaction has really grappled with what we're up against here. I may work as a software engineer, but my degree is in physics. I've read the reports, as well as a lot of other researchers comments on climate. We're in real trouble. Frankly, panic attacks are an entirely justified and justifiable reaction, if not the most productive. The IPCC, which has consistently been proven to have been overly optimistic about climate change, is sounding a drastic alarm. They're saying we need to cut carbon by 45% in the next decade across the board or face "catastrophic" consequences. As if nearly semi-annual thousand year hurricane events and the west coast in flames weren't already catastrophic consequences. Reducing carbon emissions by 45% means making half the cars on the road electric or getting them off the road entirely in 10 years. It means converting half of our power system to solar, wind, nuclear, or hydro in 10 years. It means forcing carbon producing industry to cut emissions by half in ten years, and getting half the people who use home heating oil to use alternatives in the next ten years. And if we fall short in one area, we need to make it up in another. And this needs to happen globally. To be brutally honest, we're _not_ going to hit that target. Period. It's just not going to happen. The level and speed of change that needs to happen is effectively out of reach. We've, realistically, already locked in catastrophic consequences. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Every tiny bit of progress we make helps reduce the consequences we face and could potentially save lives. I'm, most likely, going to be running for city council in my city on a climate response platform that involves building out the transit, bike, and pedestrian infrastructure -- disincentivizing driving in the process -- and finding ways to get solar panels on people's roofs that don't require the local power company's consent. Who knows whether I'll win or not, but at least I can force the conversation. You can do the same. It doesn't matter how small or insignificant your town may seem, every little bit helps. A lot of people think this is going to take national action, and they're not wrong, but it's also going to take local action. And we can't afford to wait for the national action. We need to build infrastructure that allows people to forgo driving. We need to build dense housing that makes it easy for people to live with in walking or biking distance of their work and the amenities they need. We need to get people using solar and wind to power their homes. We can do these things at the local level. In fact, most of things things _have_ to happen at the local level. Even if we end up with a federal green new deal program, we're going to have to enact these things locally. Again, we're not going to hit the target and we're going to be facing catastrophic consequences. If you're in a coastal region, think about getting out now. If you're in southern Florida -- seriously, get out now. Find a new community and start putting down roots. The IPCC thinks we're not going to have to worry about Florida until sometime around 2080 or 2100, but the IPCC has consistently been wrong. James Hansen's team's finding, which suggests we could lose most of Florida as early as 2050 keeps getting replicated. Luckily, for the communities not at risk of annihilation the things they need to do to prevent climate change are also the best ways to prepare for the consequences: build lots of dense, walkable housing so that we can absorb the migrations with out emitting carbon in transportation. Build large resilient local food systems. Get people using renewables. We pretty much know what we have to do -- we have to totally transform our society -- and we know how we have to do it. The issue is over coming the inertia and building the political will to do it. So you can totally be forgiven for having panic attacks (and for the love of all that is holy, don't you dare make fun of people who are experiencing them -- those people are accurately grappling with reality while you're in denial), but do your best to get through them and then just get to work. We know what we have to do. Lets do our best to get it done.
B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
Back in 1989, the late Gore Vidal wrote an essay titled "Cue the Green God, Ted" (Ted Koppel, TV anchor-critter at the time.) Basically outlining how the 'green' cause would serve to keep order. He could see it coming ...
british_india 8y ago
I invite you to research Dr. Guy McPherson, who says: "Human extinction by 2030."

32 points by uptown 8y ago

I think people are internalizing what is essentially a macro issue down to the personal level. In reality, individuals are likely to be fine. We're not going to wake up one day and be instantly vaporized. The section about people not wanting to have children because of climate change is really shocking. I find it crazy that people would literally weed themselves out of the gene pool on the idea that the planet will be uninhabitable in the very near future. Humans are resilient, humans solve problems, humans have technology. Maybe this will push us to go to space sooner than we would have? Maybe we'll create underground cities? This is an opportunity to advance human technology and society, not the time to throw in the towel and commit genetic suicide. Thankfully I think most people wouldn't do that, it's just that doesn't make for compelling clickbait so those thoughts didn't get included in this article.

Fricken 8y ago
You're not going to weed yourself out of the gene pool by not having kids. Your genetic material is widely distributed amongst 7.7 billion other people.
XJOKOLAT 8y ago
PEOPLE ARE FUCKING DYING NOW, BRO ... this dick talking about vaporization ... Pricks ... Is what I would have said.
mycorrhizal 8y ago
I agree with you on the having kids issue, but I disagree that individuals should just treat it as a macro problem. Even in the US (where I live) there is planning you can do on an individual level to help you avoid some of the negative consequences of climate change. I actually think this would be an interesting discussion on HN. Some of the steps that I think are most important concern mainly where you choose to live for a specific example Miami could fare very badly wrt to flooding and increased storms. I can't imagine that will be good for property values not to mention safety. I would be interested to read about anyone else's suggestions on what plans someone could make on an individual level for both themselves and their children.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  I agree. People should be informed and responsible. Adaptation is going to require a lot of changes. Might as well acknowledge them and start dealing with them (as you suggest). I found the article to be anything but responsible though. More like hysterical.
Analemma_ 8y ago
> We're not going to wake up one day and be instantly vaporized. Nice strawman. No one ever said we're going to "wake up and be instantly vaporized". What's actually going to happen is this: - Food is going to continuously get more expensive as droughts shorten growing seasons, desertification and flooding eliminate arable land, the ocean depopulates, and increased atmospheric CO2 "de-nutrients" the crops that do grow. - We're going to rack up unbelievable debt trying to either migrate people out of flood zones or try to delay their immersion. I've said before that once Miami starts flooding enough that people can no longer stick their heads in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong, Florida real estate owners will probably demand some ultra-expensive engineering megaproject to try and save the city on the taxpayers' dime. The same will happen in every other low-lying coastal region. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12342617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12342617 quotes a figure of $180 million just to migrate 600 people in Alaska; now multiply that by the size of the population in coastal areas and get a glimpse of the hole we're driving into. - Building on that last point, human migration is going to increase dramatically as people try to escape more affected regions for better-off ones. The current level of migration, relatively tiny all things considered, is already causing fatal autoimmune reactions in Europe and North America, and it's going to increase by orders of magnitude. Not to mention the additional unrest when the wealthy inevitably retreat to (literal or metaphorical) walled cities to escape the problem. - The above factors of resource scarcity, political unrest, and finger-pointing are going to cause global wars. So yes, this will affect all of us on the personal level of having a lower standard of living in a world of permanent social turmoil. It is not going to be fine. > Maybe this will push us to go to space sooner than we would have? Maybe we'll create underground cities? This is an opportunity to advance human technology and society, Even disregarding that your own use of the word "maybe" already indicates a certain amount of hopelessness about the situation, this is a fallacy of "just because circumstances forced us to develop this technology, that technology is a Good Thing and represents societal progress". I don't want to live underground or in space, I want to live on a healthy planet with lots of open space and diverse environments. At the very best, either of these options would be like spending your entire life in a climate-controlled office building. I'd prefer death.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  > What's actually going to happen is this: I don't think anyone knows what's going to happen. Definitely not extrapolated out as far as you have.
c0nducktr 8y ago
I'm sorry, but being pushed to living in space or underground sooner rather than later doesn't sound like something we should look at as a good thing. Most people don't want to do those things.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  It's inevitable that we'll have to go to space someday if we want to human race to survive. "Good" or "bad" has nothing to do with it.

rdtsc 8y ago

> “The emotional reaction of my kids was severe,” she told NBC News. “There was a lot of crying. They told me, 'We know what’s coming, and it’s going to be really rough.’ “ It depends how she presented the report to her children. Did she just let them watch the news or read it to them. Children pick up the emotional state and anxiety of their parents, and they don't necessarily know how to deal with it. If her children are having panic attacks over it, not sure global warming is to blame as much as she is. If there wasn't this issue chances are her children would be having panic attacks over globalization, open air slave markets in Libya, how police treat minorities, famine, etc.

Flozzin 8y ago
I agree. I'm not saying you down play the threat, but you have to realize that children are not adults. Almost everything is a new experience to them. And they do not have the tools in order to deal with the emotions. I was pretty annoyed when my partner's 2 kids came home from school in a complete tizzy over the presidential election. I'm not sure if it was from their friends or their teachers. But they were practically crying, thinking everything was going to fall apart.(It wasn't from either of us) You have to be very careful about how and what you tell to kids. Especially since something like the presidential election or climate change just isn't something they can truly have an affect on yet.
- bryanlarsen 8y ago
  I remember being completely devastated when I learned that the sun was going to explode in 5 billion years time.
  - Flozzin 8y ago
    That's funny. That still makes me sad to this day. But I was pretty broken up over it too. Somehow the fact that I will have been long dead did not matter.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

vixen99 8y ago

As in https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/7344329/Baby-survives-parents-global-warming-suicide-pact.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/arge...

diafygi 8y ago

This article is likely to get heavily down-weighted on HN, so before that happens, I guess it's that time again for a what-can-you-do-about-it post :) To start, here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" ==So what can you do about it?== I work in cleantech, and you should, too! Solar and wind are economical, so now the biggest issue is scaling them up. That means tons and tons of problem solving, which means great tech and engineering jobs! If you think about it, the switch to renewables means we need to deal with situations where the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing, yet still keep the lights on. That means you have to build in a ton of storage and load control, which means good communication and analysis, which means software! Something like half of the impact of the energy transition will be done through software optimizing the deployment and operation of clean energy assets. Anyway, please check out my previous comments on recommendations when looking for climate impact work[1]. Also, working in cleantech can significantly reduce the feelings described in this article. Think of it like exercise. By working at it, your body naturally replaces anxiety with optimism and motivation. Physically doing something to fight your anxiety will make you feel better. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154

srdev 8y ago
Is there much in the way of software development and data engineering? I clicked on some of your links but the focus was on engineering jobs involved with building the physical infrastructure, which sort-of matches my expectations. But it also means theres not much I can reasonably do to contribute.
- diafygi 8y ago
  Absolutely! Most distributed battery storage (Stem, Advanced Microgrid, etc.) and building energy management companies (Carbon Lighthouse, Siemens, etc.) have software divisions that focus on data analysis tools for their customers (think energy dashboards and reports). Also, most grid operators (CAISO, etc.), utilities (PG&E, etc.), and utility vendors (AutoGrid, etc.) have data analysis divisions that focus on figuring out how we can keep the grid running while ramping up renewables. Finally, regulators (Dept of Energy, public utility commissions, city managers, etc.) are in desperate need of data science talent to help them understand all this new energy advancements that are going on (often at policy hearings utilities are saying one technical thing, distributed energy companies are saying another technical thing, and the panel of regulators have no idea what the technical implications of all this back-and-forth is). Hope that helps! Maybe you can try searching typical software job boards (Indeed, etc.) for your language of choice + keywords (clean energy, solar, renewables, smart grid, climate change, etc.).

caublestone 8y ago

In decline and fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbons focuses a lot on the people’s climate fears. The people believed that there was nothing that could be done and that they deserved nature’s wrath. In the 1600s, Lisbon was leveled by an earthquake. Some thought that God was punishing them others saw it as an opportunity to rebuild and grow stronger. Today, Lisbon is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I pray for people to end the fear and believe in a bigger future. Happy new year.

dbingham 8y ago

I don't think anyone commenting on this post who is downplaying the reaction has really grappled with what we're up against here. I may work as a software engineer, but my degree is in physics. I've read the reports, as well as a lot of other researchers comments on climate. We're in real trouble. Frankly, panic attacks are an entirely justified and justifiable reaction, if not the most productive. The IPCC, which has consistently been proven to have been overly optimistic about climate change, is sounding a drastic alarm. They're saying we need to cut carbon by 45% in the next decade across the board or face "catastrophic" consequences. As if nearly semi-annual thousand year hurricane events and the west coast in flames weren't already catastrophic consequences. Reducing carbon emissions by 45% means making half the cars on the road electric or getting them off the road entirely in 10 years. It means converting half of our power system to solar, wind, nuclear, or hydro in 10 years. It means forcing carbon producing industry to cut emissions by half in ten years, and getting half the people who use home heating oil to use alternatives in the next ten years. And if we fall short in one area, we need to make it up in another. And this needs to happen globally. To be brutally honest, we're _not_ going to hit that target. Period. It's just not going to happen. The level and speed of change that needs to happen is effectively out of reach. We've, realistically, already locked in catastrophic consequences. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Every tiny bit of progress we make helps reduce the consequences we face and could potentially save lives. I'm, most likely, going to be running for city council in my city on a climate response platform that involves building out the transit, bike, and pedestrian infrastructure -- disincentivizing driving in the process -- and finding ways to get solar panels on people's roofs that don't require the local power company's consent. Who knows whether I'll win or not, but at least I can force the conversation. You can do the same. It doesn't matter how small or insignificant your town may seem, every little bit helps. A lot of people think this is going to take national action, and they're not wrong, but it's also going to take local action. And we can't afford to wait for the national action. We need to build infrastructure that allows people to forgo driving. We need to build dense housing that makes it easy for people to live with in walking or biking distance of their work and the amenities they need. We need to get people using solar and wind to power their homes. We can do these things at the local level. In fact, most of things things _have_ to happen at the local level. Even if we end up with a federal green new deal program, we're going to have to enact these things locally. Again, we're not going to hit the target and we're going to be facing catastrophic consequences. If you're in a coastal region, think about getting out now. If you're in southern Florida -- seriously, get out now. Find a new community and start putting down roots. The IPCC thinks we're not going to have to worry about Florida until sometime around 2080 or 2100, but the IPCC has consistently been wrong. James Hansen's team's finding, which suggests we could lose most of Florida as early as 2050 keeps getting replicated. Luckily, for the communities not at risk of annihilation the things they need to do to prevent climate change are also the best ways to prepare for the consequences: build lots of dense, walkable housing so that we can absorb the migrations with out emitting carbon in transportation. Build large resilient local food systems. Get people using renewables. We pretty much know what we have to do -- we have to totally transform our society -- and we know how we have to do it. The issue is over coming the inertia and building the political will to do it. So you can totally be forgiven for having panic attacks (and for the love of all that is holy, don't you dare make fun of people who are experiencing them -- those people are accurately grappling with reality while you're in denial), but do your best to get through them and then just get to work. We know what we have to do. Lets do our best to get it done.

B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago

Back in 1989, the late Gore Vidal wrote an essay titled "Cue the Green God, Ted" (Ted Koppel, TV anchor-critter at the time.) Basically outlining how the 'green' cause would serve to keep order. He could see it coming ...

british_india 8y ago

I invite you to research Dr. Guy McPherson, who says: "Human extinction by 2030."