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Entropy. Good point. I don't think many brought up that issue, it's either ignored (we know what we're doing) or coped with when it's too late (we knew what we'

by nenadg 8y ago

Entropy. Good point. I don't think many brought up that issue, it's either ignored (we know what we're doing) or coped with when it's too late (we knew what we're doing). Entropy handling should be the goal for 2019 UI/Frontend engineering.

Vinnl 8y ago
I think the reduction of the cognitive load of entropy was what propelled React (and specifically its innovation of the Virtual DOM) to be the most widely-used front-end framework. Being able to write a function transforming state to a description of the view, without having to worry about getting from whatever the view currently looks like to what you want it to look like, is a huge advantage. It can certainly still be greatly improved, but I think we've already made great strides in entropy handling on the front-end in recent years.
- c-smile 8y ago
  > innovation of the Virtual DOM Virtual DOM is rather a desperate move - to support components life time constructor/destructor events componentWill/DidMount / Unmount. What if you will be able to define in standard HTML/CSS something like this (as it is supported natively in Sciter) // css div.mycomponent { behavior: MyComponent url(components.js); } // script in components.js class MyComponent : Element { function attached() { /*constructor*/ } function detached() { /*destructor*/ } … other custom component specific methods … } With that simple mechanism you don't need virtual DOM and its overhead at all. Component binding requires only inclusion of that CSS.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    If I am not mistaken, Houdini will allow similar features. But it is still far away from standardization.
    - c-smile 8y ago
      > still far away from standardization. Sciter uses this feature almost 10 years. All these 10 years we have libraries of reusable components and so no need for React. Same is about flexbox and grid: https://terrainformatica.com/2018/12/11/10-years-of-flexboxing/ https://terrainformatica.com/2018/12/11/10-years-of-flexboxi...
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Well, native has it even longer (WPF behaviors and grid), but I have to put up with Web for most of my projects.
        c-smile 8y ago
        Sciter was used in production 1 year before WPF appearance: https://sciter.com/sciter/sciter-vs-wpf/ https://sciter.com/sciter/sciter-vs-wpf/
  - Vinnl 8y ago
    So let's say that that's a component that displays a user's username - how do you make sure that its view is always up-to-date, whether the user is logged in, logged out, or another user's logged in? Virtual DOM is not just about componentWill/DidMount/UnMount. It's when updating the view when a component's inputs (props) change that Virtual DOM shines.
  - Technetium_Hat 8y ago
    looks pretty close to the web components api. specifically "customized built-in elements" which use the `is` attribute on a regular element to add custom beavior.

by nenadg 8y ago

Vinnl 8y ago

I think the reduction of the cognitive load of entropy was what propelled React (and specifically its innovation of the Virtual DOM) to be the most widely-used front-end framework. Being able to write a function transforming state to a description of the view, without having to worry about getting from whatever the view currently looks like to what you want it to look like, is a huge advantage. It can certainly still be greatly improved, but I think we've already made great strides in entropy handling on the front-end in recent years.

c-smile 8y ago
> innovation of the Virtual DOM Virtual DOM is rather a desperate move - to support components life time constructor/destructor events componentWill/DidMount / Unmount. What if you will be able to define in standard HTML/CSS something like this (as it is supported natively in Sciter) // css div.mycomponent { behavior: MyComponent url(components.js); } // script in components.js class MyComponent : Element { function attached() { /*constructor*/ } function detached() { /*destructor*/ } … other custom component specific methods … } With that simple mechanism you don't need virtual DOM and its overhead at all. Component binding requires only inclusion of that CSS.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  If I am not mistaken, Houdini will allow similar features. But it is still far away from standardization.
  - c-smile 8y ago
    > still far away from standardization. Sciter uses this feature almost 10 years. All these 10 years we have libraries of reusable components and so no need for React. Same is about flexbox and grid: https://terrainformatica.com/2018/12/11/10-years-of-flexboxing/ https://terrainformatica.com/2018/12/11/10-years-of-flexboxi...
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Well, native has it even longer (WPF behaviors and grid), but I have to put up with Web for most of my projects.
      - c-smile 8y ago
        Sciter was used in production 1 year before WPF appearance: https://sciter.com/sciter/sciter-vs-wpf/ https://sciter.com/sciter/sciter-vs-wpf/
- Vinnl 8y ago
  So let's say that that's a component that displays a user's username - how do you make sure that its view is always up-to-date, whether the user is logged in, logged out, or another user's logged in? Virtual DOM is not just about componentWill/DidMount/UnMount. It's when updating the view when a component's inputs (props) change that Virtual DOM shines.
- Technetium_Hat 8y ago
  looks pretty close to the web components api. specifically "customized built-in elements" which use the `is` attribute on a regular element to add custom beavior.