4 ms·

It is perhaps necessary as Germany now has to import coal. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-30/germany-closes-last-coal-mine-despite-decades-of-

It is perhaps necessary as Germany now has to import coal. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-30/germany-closes-last-coal-mine-despite-decades-of-supplies-needed https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-30/germany-c...

freehunter 8y ago
I guess I should amend my statement: is coal use still necessary, or merely convenient? If we're using coal, it's necessary to mine it. The upstream question is, is it still necessary to use coal beyond the very boring argument of "it would cost money to replace coal"? I'm not looking for an answer to this question, as I don't own any coal mines or coal power plants. Just expressing general dissatisfaction with humanity's destructive-but-convenient habits.
- crumpets 8y ago
  >is it still necessary to use coal beyond the very boring argument of "it would cost money to replace coal"? Yes, but not for electricity. There isn't a way to make steel at any scale without using coking coal in the furnaces.
  - mschuster91 8y ago
    > There isn't a way to make steel at any scale without using coking coal in the furnaces. At least for Germany (as mentioned by GP), that business will not be around for much longer. Steel from China and India simply is too cheap compared with domestic production. Probably once these two countries get too expensive production will shift over to Africa...
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    I googled around a bit and it appears that "There isn't a way to make steel at any scale without using coking coal in the furnaces." is a coal industry talking point. Here's a 2013 article about making steel without coal: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cleaner-cheaper-way-to-make-steel-uses-electricity/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cleaner-cheaper-w... And something from 2018: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611961/this-mit-spinout-could-finally-clean-up-steel-one-of-the-globes-biggest-climate-polluters/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611961/this-mit-spinout-c... Not proven at scale yet, but it appears to be more promising than many other unsolved climate problems. Also, natural gas is already being used at scale to make steel, not a complete replacement of coal, but a big reduction.
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freehunter 8y ago

I guess I should amend my statement: is coal use still necessary, or merely convenient? If we're using coal, it's necessary to mine it. The upstream question is, is it still necessary to use coal beyond the very boring argument of "it would cost money to replace coal"? I'm not looking for an answer to this question, as I don't own any coal mines or coal power plants. Just expressing general dissatisfaction with humanity's destructive-but-convenient habits.

crumpets 8y ago
>is it still necessary to use coal beyond the very boring argument of "it would cost money to replace coal"? Yes, but not for electricity. There isn't a way to make steel at any scale without using coking coal in the furnaces.
- mschuster91 8y ago
  > There isn't a way to make steel at any scale without using coking coal in the furnaces. At least for Germany (as mentioned by GP), that business will not be around for much longer. Steel from China and India simply is too cheap compared with domestic production. Probably once these two countries get too expensive production will shift over to Africa...
- greglindahl 8y ago
  I googled around a bit and it appears that "There isn't a way to make steel at any scale without using coking coal in the furnaces." is a coal industry talking point. Here's a 2013 article about making steel without coal: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cleaner-cheaper-way-to-make-steel-uses-electricity/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cleaner-cheaper-w... And something from 2018: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611961/this-mit-spinout-could-finally-clean-up-steel-one-of-the-globes-biggest-climate-polluters/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611961/this-mit-spinout-c... Not proven at scale yet, but it appears to be more promising than many other unsolved climate problems. Also, natural gas is already being used at scale to make steel, not a complete replacement of coal, but a big reduction.

deleted 8y ago

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