5 ms·

It's a bit of a Kamikaze effort, really. Enough NIMBY automation and future complaints will be as effective as no complaints at all.

jimnotgym 8y ago
Exactly, boiler plate duplicate spam complaints > boiler plate meaningless reply.
signal11 8y ago
Even before this, researchers have noticed that a few people generate a disproportionate number of noise complaints (both links from 2016): US: https://www.mercatus.org/publications/airport-noise-nimbyism https://www.mercatus.org/publications/airport-noise-nimbyism UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37803205 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37803205 (half of the around 25,000 complaints were made by 10 people) I wonder if these people are more susceptible to noise than others, or are simply more tolerant of / more incentivized to navigating bureaucracy to file complaints. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how a "dash buttons" approach to filing complaints affects these numbers.
- Zanni 8y ago
  On the disproportionate number of noise complaints from a few people: I've noticed in my own case that there was a huge bar to making my first noise complaint (I don't live under a flight path, but across from a beach park where people like to party after hours and blast loud music). The first few times I suffered through it. Eventually it was so bad, I went out at 3am to ask, politely, for them to keep it down (the park closes at 10pm). I didn't want to be "that guy" that calls the cops on a bunch of kids just looking to have a good time. The guy who owned the car blasting the music was apologetic and immediately complied, but one of his friends got in my face about it. Another couple of incidents like that and, well, fuck it, I'm not going to risk bodily harm to try to be cool for some total strangers. I called the cops, who responded in minutes. Problem solved. Once I crossed that line, I hear music blasting after midnight, I call the cops without hesitation. Aside from my own peace of mind, I like to think I'm helping my neighbors who may be still be in the suffering stage. I have no doubt that I make many more noise complaints than they do.
  - marcoperaza 8y ago
    Your story is a great illustration of how accurate data can lead people to wrong conclusions. There’s no substitute for a qualitative understanding of the phenomenon being studied.
    - lostlogin 8y ago
      I’ve always preferred quantitative data, though the pros and cons of each were explained to me by a physicist who was hardly non-biased.
      - dwaltrip 8y ago
        All data has limitations and context which must be understood, or else one may reach wrong conclusions. I think the limitations of quantitative data are often not properly acknowledged. Of course, data can be still be very useful.
  - tnolet 8y ago
    I heared that cops tend to respond very quickly and seriously to noise complaints as such situations have a tendency to get out of hand and turn into violence or worse.
    - de_watcher 8y ago
      Quick tip: one of simple ways of turning it into an out of hand situation is to go and try to solve the noise problem by yourself.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    Funny I had the opposite experience in the UK (London). Some 50-ish cars doing a sort of illegal car tuning gathering under my windows in the middle of the night (midnight). It wasn't the first time and I knew it could last for a couple of hours. Making loud noise with their engines and sound systems. I first went to speak to them and asked them to move around (they were also obstructing the traffic). They just laughed. I then called the non emergency police line, talked to a very nice and courteous officer, whose job seemed to be providing reassuring words but did nothing about it.
- porlune 8y ago
  I think some people just have a lower threshold for some of this behavior by business that profits while making those around them uncomfortable. Case in point: I absolutely despise the fact that I have to pick up after a company because they want to throw their free newspapers and advertisements on my lawn and entryway. Someone even clipped a flyer to my window one wet morning, an it completely adhered to the glass. Yet this behavior is literally permitted by my local government, which handed these outfits permits for their planned activities.
- donkeyd 8y ago
  In 2016, Schiphol airport got about 200k complaints, 150k of which were made by 35 people.[0] That's 11 a day, every day, assuming they all made the same number of complaints, which I doubt. [0]: https://airnoise.io/ https://airnoise.io/
  - basejumping 8y ago
    It could well be 200 000 people if the process was as easy as pressing a button.
- HNLogInShit 8y ago
  Or, more likely, they're NIMBY assholes (or, more accurately, fake-NIMBY assholes) who seek to boost their property values by destroying public airports and stealing from the rest of us. See Santa Monica for a great example.
contravariant 8y ago
Perhaps, although it's a bit odd to discount complaints simply because someone didn't go through another frustrating process to make the complaint. Optimistically this might allow people to complain that otherwise wouldn't have bothered, and while it might be possible to explain away an increase in the number of complaints if it comes from a few people it becomes harder to ignore when these complaints come from a large group of people.
joecool1029 8y ago
We used to have a system where excessive complaints by an individual would be considered an offense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_scold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_scold

jimnotgym 8y ago

Exactly, boiler plate duplicate spam complaints > boiler plate meaningless reply.

signal11 8y ago

Even before this, researchers have noticed that a few people generate a disproportionate number of noise complaints (both links from 2016): US: https://www.mercatus.org/publications/airport-noise-nimbyism https://www.mercatus.org/publications/airport-noise-nimbyism UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37803205 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37803205 (half of the around 25,000 complaints were made by 10 people) I wonder if these people are more susceptible to noise than others, or are simply more tolerant of / more incentivized to navigating bureaucracy to file complaints. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how a "dash buttons" approach to filing complaints affects these numbers.

Zanni 8y ago
On the disproportionate number of noise complaints from a few people: I've noticed in my own case that there was a huge bar to making my first noise complaint (I don't live under a flight path, but across from a beach park where people like to party after hours and blast loud music). The first few times I suffered through it. Eventually it was so bad, I went out at 3am to ask, politely, for them to keep it down (the park closes at 10pm). I didn't want to be "that guy" that calls the cops on a bunch of kids just looking to have a good time. The guy who owned the car blasting the music was apologetic and immediately complied, but one of his friends got in my face about it. Another couple of incidents like that and, well, fuck it, I'm not going to risk bodily harm to try to be cool for some total strangers. I called the cops, who responded in minutes. Problem solved. Once I crossed that line, I hear music blasting after midnight, I call the cops without hesitation. Aside from my own peace of mind, I like to think I'm helping my neighbors who may be still be in the suffering stage. I have no doubt that I make many more noise complaints than they do.
- marcoperaza 8y ago
  Your story is a great illustration of how accurate data can lead people to wrong conclusions. There’s no substitute for a qualitative understanding of the phenomenon being studied.
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    I’ve always preferred quantitative data, though the pros and cons of each were explained to me by a physicist who was hardly non-biased.
    - dwaltrip 8y ago
      All data has limitations and context which must be understood, or else one may reach wrong conclusions. I think the limitations of quantitative data are often not properly acknowledged. Of course, data can be still be very useful.
- tnolet 8y ago
  I heared that cops tend to respond very quickly and seriously to noise complaints as such situations have a tendency to get out of hand and turn into violence or worse.
  - de_watcher 8y ago
    Quick tip: one of simple ways of turning it into an out of hand situation is to go and try to solve the noise problem by yourself.
- cm2187 8y ago
  Funny I had the opposite experience in the UK (London). Some 50-ish cars doing a sort of illegal car tuning gathering under my windows in the middle of the night (midnight). It wasn't the first time and I knew it could last for a couple of hours. Making loud noise with their engines and sound systems. I first went to speak to them and asked them to move around (they were also obstructing the traffic). They just laughed. I then called the non emergency police line, talked to a very nice and courteous officer, whose job seemed to be providing reassuring words but did nothing about it.
porlune 8y ago
I think some people just have a lower threshold for some of this behavior by business that profits while making those around them uncomfortable. Case in point: I absolutely despise the fact that I have to pick up after a company because they want to throw their free newspapers and advertisements on my lawn and entryway. Someone even clipped a flyer to my window one wet morning, an it completely adhered to the glass. Yet this behavior is literally permitted by my local government, which handed these outfits permits for their planned activities.
donkeyd 8y ago
In 2016, Schiphol airport got about 200k complaints, 150k of which were made by 35 people.[0] That's 11 a day, every day, assuming they all made the same number of complaints, which I doubt. [0]: https://airnoise.io/ https://airnoise.io/
- basejumping 8y ago
  It could well be 200 000 people if the process was as easy as pressing a button.
HNLogInShit 8y ago
Or, more likely, they're NIMBY assholes (or, more accurately, fake-NIMBY assholes) who seek to boost their property values by destroying public airports and stealing from the rest of us. See Santa Monica for a great example.

contravariant 8y ago

Perhaps, although it's a bit odd to discount complaints simply because someone didn't go through another frustrating process to make the complaint. Optimistically this might allow people to complain that otherwise wouldn't have bothered, and while it might be possible to explain away an increase in the number of complaints if it comes from a few people it becomes harder to ignore when these complaints come from a large group of people.

joecool1029 8y ago

We used to have a system where excessive complaints by an individual would be considered an offense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_scold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_scold