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Imagine being a carpenter applying for a job and being asked to make a small bedside table for free. So the employer can sample your skills before committing to

Imagine being a carpenter applying for a job and being asked to make a small bedside table for free. So the employer can sample your skills before committing to a full purchase. Absurd.

simonswords82 8y ago
If you ever sat on the hiring side and had just one new hire not work out, you would understand your throw away statement is actually more absurd than asking for free work. Let's flip the scenario and go your way instead... Imagine being a programmer applying for a job and not being asked to demonstrate your skills at interview. The interview goes well, and you're offered the job. You give your 4 weeks notice on your existing job, and turn up to your new role. You sit down, it's day one, and you're presented with a small sprint of bugs to work through to get warmed up on the project you're assigned. Your heart sinks. You realise that you are totally out of your depth. The solution you're working on is hard, the documentation insanely complex, and you feel more and more despondent as the week goes on. By the end of the week your colleagues and managers have started to pick up on your struggles. Despite their effort to help you can't make meaningful progress. To cut a long story short you're let go, and now you're unemployed. -THE END- As an employer and owner of a software company, it's my job to assess the skills of somebody as quickly and efficiently as possible. If getting them to "build a small bedside table for free" gets both me, my colleagues, and the candidate attending the interview comfortable that we're offering a job to somebody who can succeed at my company, then so be it.
- bicubic 8y ago
  I'm more often on the hiring side of the table than on the other. Probation periods exist specifically to address the issue of hiring false positives, and they work fine. Your story is only possible if the interview process failed miserably. If your process sucks and results in a lot of false positives, that's your problem. Don't use it as justification for milking candidates for unpaid work towards actual deliverables.
  - simonswords82 8y ago
    One must not use probation as a get out of jail free card. We used to think the same way you do, we ultimately realised we were wrong. Probation exists to be used only extreme circumstances, not as a catch all for "hey, sorry we made the wrong hire". It's more expensive to hire a candidate and kick them out on probation than to avoid making the wrong hire. This is another reason my approach works - we don't "milk" free labour, we don't need it. Our interview ensures we make the right hire first time, every time and part of that process is some "real" work. Our interview process is awesome. Refined over a period of 10 years. Candidates learn something, we learn something, we collaborate with them. We often have candidates, even those who do not receive a job offer, compliment us on our process. I'll write our interview process up one day and share it on HN so others can benefit.

Imagine being a carpenter applying for a job and being asked to make a small bedside table for free. So the employer can sample your skills before committing to a full purchase. Absurd.

simonswords82 8y ago

If you ever sat on the hiring side and had just one new hire not work out, you would understand your throw away statement is actually more absurd than asking for free work. Let's flip the scenario and go your way instead... Imagine being a programmer applying for a job and not being asked to demonstrate your skills at interview. The interview goes well, and you're offered the job. You give your 4 weeks notice on your existing job, and turn up to your new role. You sit down, it's day one, and you're presented with a small sprint of bugs to work through to get warmed up on the project you're assigned. Your heart sinks. You realise that you are totally out of your depth. The solution you're working on is hard, the documentation insanely complex, and you feel more and more despondent as the week goes on. By the end of the week your colleagues and managers have started to pick up on your struggles. Despite their effort to help you can't make meaningful progress. To cut a long story short you're let go, and now you're unemployed. -THE END- As an employer and owner of a software company, it's my job to assess the skills of somebody as quickly and efficiently as possible. If getting them to "build a small bedside table for free" gets both me, my colleagues, and the candidate attending the interview comfortable that we're offering a job to somebody who can succeed at my company, then so be it.

bicubic 8y ago
I'm more often on the hiring side of the table than on the other. Probation periods exist specifically to address the issue of hiring false positives, and they work fine. Your story is only possible if the interview process failed miserably. If your process sucks and results in a lot of false positives, that's your problem. Don't use it as justification for milking candidates for unpaid work towards actual deliverables.
- simonswords82 8y ago
  One must not use probation as a get out of jail free card. We used to think the same way you do, we ultimately realised we were wrong. Probation exists to be used only extreme circumstances, not as a catch all for "hey, sorry we made the wrong hire". It's more expensive to hire a candidate and kick them out on probation than to avoid making the wrong hire. This is another reason my approach works - we don't "milk" free labour, we don't need it. Our interview ensures we make the right hire first time, every time and part of that process is some "real" work. Our interview process is awesome. Refined over a period of 10 years. Candidates learn something, we learn something, we collaborate with them. We often have candidates, even those who do not receive a job offer, compliment us on our process. I'll write our interview process up one day and share it on HN so others can benefit.