3 ms·

Sure, there will be cases where your device will say "I'm at a loss here, go see a doctor". The point is, right now the majority of (very expensive!) doctor vis

by m0zg 8y ago

Sure, there will be cases where your device will say "I'm at a loss here, go see a doctor". The point is, right now the majority of (very expensive!) doctor visits are a total waste of everyone's time, and your money. There's no rational reason why I need to drive to a lab for bloodwork or simple diagnostics, and have a human do it: a robot at a local convenience store should be able to do the job. There's no rational reason why I need a doctor to misdiagnose my elbow pain as something requiring surgical intervention (I just stopped using my laptop in bed and it went away). Another doctor ordered a ($900) MRI to diagnose pain in my left shoulder and then told me I have a SLAP tear there based on extremely blurry results (again $$$$, surgical intervention, and 6 months of recovery). Bullshit, bud, I don't - it's a non-dominant arm, and I'm someone who doesn't do a lot of throwing or work above shoulder level. It was that dang laptop in bed again. Someone with weaker critical thinking skills and google-fu would be thousands of dollars poorer thanks to taking that doctor's "advice". In fact they could end up with a permanently fucked up shoulder and elbow, too. Did you know that medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the US, right after heart attack and cancer? Seems to me that "human" doctors are also a dangerous proposition.

assblaster 8y ago
>The point is, right now the majority of (very expensive!) doctor visits are a total waste of everyone's time, and your money. Honestly, what are you talking about? A doctor's visit costs between $0 and $150, depending on insurance/government, and it is a focused encounter to determine the source of a medical complaint and a most likely effective treatment for that problem. You want to stick a one-lead ECG on someone and expect that it's supposed to spit out a diagnosis, or heaven forbid, a recommendation to see a doctor who can actually figure out how to diagnose and treat the patient. Your statement in fact points to the uselessness of this proposed medical device if it can't actually figure out what's going on and instead will send you to an actual expert (physician). How reliable would it be for everything else it "diagnoses"?
- m0zg 8y ago
  >> A doctor's visit costs between $0 and $150 And who do you think covers the remaining $150-infinity? >> You want to stick a one-lead ECG You're not arguing in good faith. Goodbye.
  - assblaster 8y ago
    >And who do you think covers the remaining $150-infinity? Primary care office visits of low complexity are typically less than $150. Suggesting otherwise is a sign of profound ignorance.
  - assblaster 8y ago
    >You're not arguing in good faith. Goodbye. You haven't come up with a single situation where a non-cardiac medical problem can be diagnosed solely with a handheld single vector ECG. You don't mention anything about false positives or false negatives, sensitivity, specificity, pathophysiology, anatomy, pharmacology, diagnostics, or medical decision making. You have no understanding of how your magical tech device would bridge every aspect of the practice of medicine, but you make an audacious claim with a bit of hand waving, saying "this will work better than physicians, and cost far less".
assblaster 8y ago
>Did you know that medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the US, right after heart attack and cancer? Seems to me that "human" doctors are also a dangerous proposition. Where's your citation? Here's what the CDC says about leading causes of death: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus/index.htm Heart disease 257.6 (2000) 168.5 (2015) 165.5 (2016) Cancer 199.6 (2000) 158.5 (2015) 155.8 (2016) Chronic lower respiratory diseases 44.2 (2000) 41.6 (2015) 40.6 (2016) Unintentional injuries 34.9 (2000) 43.2 (2015) 47.4 (2016) Stroke 60.9 (2000) 37.6 (2015) 37.3 (2016) Alzheimer's disease 18.1 (2000) 29.4 (2015) 30.3 (2016) Diabetes 25.0 (2000) 21.3 (2015) 21.0 (2016) Influenza and pneumonia 23.7 (2000) 15.2 (2015) 13.5 (2016) Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis 13.5 (2000) 13.4 (2015) 13.1 (2016) Suicide 10.4 (2000) 13.3 (2015) 13.5 (2016)
- m0zg 8y ago
  Notice that medical errors are conspicuously absent from your list. Super convenient: if you don't count 'em, it looks like nobody died. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/03/476636183/death-certificates-undercount-toll-of-medical-errors https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/03/4766361...
  - assblaster 8y ago
    Attributing death to a medical error instead of the underlying condition that would have been the cause of death anyway is missing the forest through the trees. If you go into the hospital because you have stage IV colon cancer, and you die because a palliative surgery resulted in infection, you died because of the colon cancer, not the infection.

by m0zg 8y ago

assblaster 8y ago

>The point is, right now the majority of (very expensive!) doctor visits are a total waste of everyone's time, and your money. Honestly, what are you talking about? A doctor's visit costs between $0 and $150, depending on insurance/government, and it is a focused encounter to determine the source of a medical complaint and a most likely effective treatment for that problem. You want to stick a one-lead ECG on someone and expect that it's supposed to spit out a diagnosis, or heaven forbid, a recommendation to see a doctor who can actually figure out how to diagnose and treat the patient. Your statement in fact points to the uselessness of this proposed medical device if it can't actually figure out what's going on and instead will send you to an actual expert (physician). How reliable would it be for everything else it "diagnoses"?

m0zg 8y ago
>> A doctor's visit costs between $0 and $150 And who do you think covers the remaining $150-infinity? >> You want to stick a one-lead ECG You're not arguing in good faith. Goodbye.
- assblaster 8y ago
  >And who do you think covers the remaining $150-infinity? Primary care office visits of low complexity are typically less than $150. Suggesting otherwise is a sign of profound ignorance.
- assblaster 8y ago
  >You're not arguing in good faith. Goodbye. You haven't come up with a single situation where a non-cardiac medical problem can be diagnosed solely with a handheld single vector ECG. You don't mention anything about false positives or false negatives, sensitivity, specificity, pathophysiology, anatomy, pharmacology, diagnostics, or medical decision making. You have no understanding of how your magical tech device would bridge every aspect of the practice of medicine, but you make an audacious claim with a bit of hand waving, saying "this will work better than physicians, and cost far less".

assblaster 8y ago

>Did you know that medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the US, right after heart attack and cancer? Seems to me that "human" doctors are also a dangerous proposition. Where's your citation? Here's what the CDC says about leading causes of death: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus/index.htm Heart disease 257.6 (2000) 168.5 (2015) 165.5 (2016) Cancer 199.6 (2000) 158.5 (2015) 155.8 (2016) Chronic lower respiratory diseases 44.2 (2000) 41.6 (2015) 40.6 (2016) Unintentional injuries 34.9 (2000) 43.2 (2015) 47.4 (2016) Stroke 60.9 (2000) 37.6 (2015) 37.3 (2016) Alzheimer's disease 18.1 (2000) 29.4 (2015) 30.3 (2016) Diabetes 25.0 (2000) 21.3 (2015) 21.0 (2016) Influenza and pneumonia 23.7 (2000) 15.2 (2015) 13.5 (2016) Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis 13.5 (2000) 13.4 (2015) 13.1 (2016) Suicide 10.4 (2000) 13.3 (2015) 13.5 (2016)

m0zg 8y ago
Notice that medical errors are conspicuously absent from your list. Super convenient: if you don't count 'em, it looks like nobody died. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/03/476636183/death-certificates-undercount-toll-of-medical-errors https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/05/03/4766361...
- assblaster 8y ago
  Attributing death to a medical error instead of the underlying condition that would have been the cause of death anyway is missing the forest through the trees. If you go into the hospital because you have stage IV colon cancer, and you die because a palliative surgery resulted in infection, you died because of the colon cancer, not the infection.