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PHP is used for a massive amount of software out there. I hate the language as much as anyone (probably more since I had to work with it extensively), but that

PHP is used for a massive amount of software out there. I hate the language as much as anyone (probably more since I had to work with it extensively), but that doesn't change the above fact. From Wordpress and Drupal to countless custom websites and apps built with Laravel or Symfony, this is a very worthwhile area to invest this money in. Regardless of how much you don't like PHP.

azdacha 8y ago
I very well know how much PHP is used. However the possibilities and outcomes a learning developper has by choosing PHP are very well enclosed to the few things PHP gives instead of the myriads of things other tools offer. I won't even talk about the semantic. On the other hand letting the dev learn JS or Python or even C++ in a pre-thought way will let much more different technologies and "tech-area" to their grasp instead of getting enclosed in the almighty web jobs. You'll start hating PHP when you'll get friends who loose all interest in programming by choosing to earn their life satisfied of themselves for the few buks they earned. I'm not satisfied of what PHP gives, neither what I can do with it. Why would I learn PHP if I know Python and C & JS ? I don't see any except for the one you told me which is that it is used by plenty of software and that it is very popular. However, every main tech that is released today is released with a Python API or JS API. So tell me, Why the hell would you tell somebody to enclose himself in this tool other than earning a few easy buks or working for another web company ? So I can tell him to build some weird hook to use the main techs ? So I can tell him we did no investment on architecture other than money ? I cannot think of PHP companies as something else than a no-innovation, no-research, no-interest & no change since 2000's. Hell maybe upgrade the one framework used one more time that may do ? Go Python you have access to Data science, web dev, all unix things and accessible, hell you can even try to make a little game with it. Go JS, you also have access to myriad of stuff, I won't even have to say how much. Now please tell me what I can do with PHP, I want to see newcomers read what options you have by learning PHP. PLEASE.
- omnimus 8y ago
  It is called the long tail. PHP is only language with okay CMSs. The reason for it is the hosting model. It is easy way how to give someone package of files and they can buy their own managed hosting, put the files there and they have website. Its all the tiny businesses restaurants, schools, fan sites. Sites with 5 visitors a day. Probably like 50% of web is this. You can hate PHP all you want but there is no tech that does this better (maybe serverless one day). And PHP cmses are in completely different league compared to anything else unfortunately. Things like Craft, Kirby, Bolt or even Wordpress nothing unfortunately compares. Of course people here are gonna hate on it and i hate PHP as much as anyone but when you are living from making websites for 500eur and you need to make 3 a month then it is hard to beat.
  - noir_lord 8y ago
    I've programmed PHP professionally for the last 10 years (among others), modern PHP written by professionals is markedly better than it used to be and the PHP devs should get credit for that.
- dmortin 8y ago
  As the sibling comment also says the strength of PHP is the hosting offerings. I use PHP only, because it's trivial to create smaller sites with it on cheap shared hosting, because PHP hosting is offered practically unversally everywhere. For bigger companies which host their own sites, other languages may be better choices.
- the_duke 8y ago
  You are really confusing two things here. I wouldn't voluntarily start any new project in PHP, but that doesn't change the massive amounts of existing PHP code that can benefit from an investment in security. PHP is (sadly) not going anywhere for a long time. Also, as others mentioned, it's just so easy to host PHP based solutions like WP etc that you can't reasonably recommend anything else to a non-technical user. Even someone clueless can figure out how to host something with PHP on cheap shared hosting with a little internet research. Good luck doing the same thing with Python or Ruby or even Rust.
- coldtea 8y ago
  What's all this emotionalization of the situation? In the end PHP is a tool. And despite the constant whining, it has created a great many projects people want to use and use (by choice). When you create an as good alternative for people's actual needs (and not what you consider people's needs to be, like "elegant code") we can see if we can get them to switch to that. Professionals use tools. Whiners and amateurs complain about ideals. >I cannot think of PHP companies as something else than a no-innovation, no-research, no-interest & no change since 2000's. Is this supposed to be satire? >Now please tell me what I can do with PHP, I want to see newcomers read what options you have by learning PHP. You get access to a turn-key, widely supported, language and ecosystem, that powers close to 80% of the web. Including extremely popular CMS options. Plus, access to some of the cheapest hosting you can find. You can also write all kinds of backend and cli stuff in it if you want. And you can always use ANOTHER TOOL for a different job, if PHP is not suitable. What a concept huh? Who would have thought.
NightlyDev 8y ago
PHP is awesome. The whole "let's start from scratch on every request"-deal makes debugging really simple. PHP isn't "complete", it could still need better support for multithreading and async operations, but that is also a part of what makes PHP so nice to work with. It's fantastic for the live request-response situations.

azdacha 8y ago

I very well know how much PHP is used. However the possibilities and outcomes a learning developper has by choosing PHP are very well enclosed to the few things PHP gives instead of the myriads of things other tools offer. I won't even talk about the semantic. On the other hand letting the dev learn JS or Python or even C++ in a pre-thought way will let much more different technologies and "tech-area" to their grasp instead of getting enclosed in the almighty web jobs. You'll start hating PHP when you'll get friends who loose all interest in programming by choosing to earn their life satisfied of themselves for the few buks they earned. I'm not satisfied of what PHP gives, neither what I can do with it. Why would I learn PHP if I know Python and C & JS ? I don't see any except for the one you told me which is that it is used by plenty of software and that it is very popular. However, every main tech that is released today is released with a Python API or JS API. So tell me, Why the hell would you tell somebody to enclose himself in this tool other than earning a few easy buks or working for another web company ? So I can tell him to build some weird hook to use the main techs ? So I can tell him we did no investment on architecture other than money ? I cannot think of PHP companies as something else than a no-innovation, no-research, no-interest & no change since 2000's. Hell maybe upgrade the one framework used one more time that may do ? Go Python you have access to Data science, web dev, all unix things and accessible, hell you can even try to make a little game with it. Go JS, you also have access to myriad of stuff, I won't even have to say how much. Now please tell me what I can do with PHP, I want to see newcomers read what options you have by learning PHP. PLEASE.

omnimus 8y ago
It is called the long tail. PHP is only language with okay CMSs. The reason for it is the hosting model. It is easy way how to give someone package of files and they can buy their own managed hosting, put the files there and they have website. Its all the tiny businesses restaurants, schools, fan sites. Sites with 5 visitors a day. Probably like 50% of web is this. You can hate PHP all you want but there is no tech that does this better (maybe serverless one day). And PHP cmses are in completely different league compared to anything else unfortunately. Things like Craft, Kirby, Bolt or even Wordpress nothing unfortunately compares. Of course people here are gonna hate on it and i hate PHP as much as anyone but when you are living from making websites for 500eur and you need to make 3 a month then it is hard to beat.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  I've programmed PHP professionally for the last 10 years (among others), modern PHP written by professionals is markedly better than it used to be and the PHP devs should get credit for that.
dmortin 8y ago
As the sibling comment also says the strength of PHP is the hosting offerings. I use PHP only, because it's trivial to create smaller sites with it on cheap shared hosting, because PHP hosting is offered practically unversally everywhere. For bigger companies which host their own sites, other languages may be better choices.
the_duke 8y ago
You are really confusing two things here. I wouldn't voluntarily start any new project in PHP, but that doesn't change the massive amounts of existing PHP code that can benefit from an investment in security. PHP is (sadly) not going anywhere for a long time. Also, as others mentioned, it's just so easy to host PHP based solutions like WP etc that you can't reasonably recommend anything else to a non-technical user. Even someone clueless can figure out how to host something with PHP on cheap shared hosting with a little internet research. Good luck doing the same thing with Python or Ruby or even Rust.
coldtea 8y ago
What's all this emotionalization of the situation? In the end PHP is a tool. And despite the constant whining, it has created a great many projects people want to use and use (by choice). When you create an as good alternative for people's actual needs (and not what you consider people's needs to be, like "elegant code") we can see if we can get them to switch to that. Professionals use tools. Whiners and amateurs complain about ideals. >I cannot think of PHP companies as something else than a no-innovation, no-research, no-interest & no change since 2000's. Is this supposed to be satire? >Now please tell me what I can do with PHP, I want to see newcomers read what options you have by learning PHP. You get access to a turn-key, widely supported, language and ecosystem, that powers close to 80% of the web. Including extremely popular CMS options. Plus, access to some of the cheapest hosting you can find. You can also write all kinds of backend and cli stuff in it if you want. And you can always use ANOTHER TOOL for a different job, if PHP is not suitable. What a concept huh? Who would have thought.

NightlyDev 8y ago

PHP is awesome. The whole "let's start from scratch on every request"-deal makes debugging really simple. PHP isn't "complete", it could still need better support for multithreading and async operations, but that is also a part of what makes PHP so nice to work with. It's fantastic for the live request-response situations.