3 ms·

For those downvoting parent please see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015806/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015806/ And others.

For those downvoting parent please see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015806/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5015806/ And others. True or not, parent wasn't just making up the empathy-painkiller association.

snibss 8y ago
The point being: it's a psychological study, in relation to behavior and emotion, which cannot be measured with NEARLY the same degree of ease or precision as sex-related endocrine effects. It's behavior, and thus potentially non-replicable. It's soft science at best. Is someone being a jerk? Is it some strange long term NSAID side-effect? Why are they being so cold and callous? Is this just an artifact of social biases that have existed since time immemorial? Is it the drug? Good luck with that one. Have fun p-value hacking it. Meanwhile, is this person on the effeminate side for a male? Immediately apparent in many cases. Does there seem to be a lot more of this gender dysphoria business going around ever since the 80's when Ibuprofen went OTC? Why yes! Is it the drug? Well, we can introduce a protocol, and study it, and know conclusively in perhaps 10 years. But, between then and now...
- xerxe-sans-s 8y ago
  Your first argument discounted psychological studies primarily on the basis that there are two many dimensions to account for in relation to a measurement of behavior. You then went on to suggest a link between gender identification and the results of a study on a single variable. It’s probably the case there are many environmental and physical dimensions at play with gender identity. While I can’t say at this point that your link is wrong, it may be best to hold back on the last assumptions; especially a biologically based one, given the scope of the impact.
  - Godel_unicode 8y ago
    You're literally replying to a comment which makes this exact point. > Well, we can introduce a protocol, and study it, and know conclusively in perhaps 10 years. But, between then and now...
- SubiculumCode 8y ago
  As a cognitive neuroscientist you may guess my opinion about your loosely constructed and ranting 'argument' about my field of study. While I will not vouch for the study I cited above, I will vouch for the scientific integrity of my colleagues.
  - klibertp 8y ago
    It's an interesting study. One thing I'm not sure about is: were the participants in (any kind of) pain originally? Was it chronic, or acute? Intuitively, and from my experience of 15 years of fighting with chronic pain, it's incredibly hard to emphasize with anything at all when you're in serious pain. It's hard to even think about anything other than pain. I'd say - again, from the perspective of a chronic pain patient - that reducing the pain with medication makes it possible to have empathy towards others. Obviously, I have no neurochemical data to back this up, I'm just saying how it looks like to me, psychologically. If I had to guess, I'd say that being in pain does little good for empathy and it's a memory of being in pain that counts. When I'm in pain I'm not going to care too much about yours, but when I was in pain, and I remember it clearly, I'm going to care a lot.
mmirate3 8y ago
Wow! A psychoactive substance that's actually helpful! (Even though it's clearly not net-helpful due to the serious physiological side-effects.) That's amazing! ... why isn't there more research on isolating this particular side-effect?

snibss 8y ago

The point being: it's a psychological study, in relation to behavior and emotion, which cannot be measured with NEARLY the same degree of ease or precision as sex-related endocrine effects. It's behavior, and thus potentially non-replicable. It's soft science at best. Is someone being a jerk? Is it some strange long term NSAID side-effect? Why are they being so cold and callous? Is this just an artifact of social biases that have existed since time immemorial? Is it the drug? Good luck with that one. Have fun p-value hacking it. Meanwhile, is this person on the effeminate side for a male? Immediately apparent in many cases. Does there seem to be a lot more of this gender dysphoria business going around ever since the 80's when Ibuprofen went OTC? Why yes! Is it the drug? Well, we can introduce a protocol, and study it, and know conclusively in perhaps 10 years. But, between then and now...

xerxe-sans-s 8y ago
Your first argument discounted psychological studies primarily on the basis that there are two many dimensions to account for in relation to a measurement of behavior. You then went on to suggest a link between gender identification and the results of a study on a single variable. It’s probably the case there are many environmental and physical dimensions at play with gender identity. While I can’t say at this point that your link is wrong, it may be best to hold back on the last assumptions; especially a biologically based one, given the scope of the impact.
- Godel_unicode 8y ago
  You're literally replying to a comment which makes this exact point. > Well, we can introduce a protocol, and study it, and know conclusively in perhaps 10 years. But, between then and now...
SubiculumCode 8y ago
As a cognitive neuroscientist you may guess my opinion about your loosely constructed and ranting 'argument' about my field of study. While I will not vouch for the study I cited above, I will vouch for the scientific integrity of my colleagues.
- klibertp 8y ago
  It's an interesting study. One thing I'm not sure about is: were the participants in (any kind of) pain originally? Was it chronic, or acute? Intuitively, and from my experience of 15 years of fighting with chronic pain, it's incredibly hard to emphasize with anything at all when you're in serious pain. It's hard to even think about anything other than pain. I'd say - again, from the perspective of a chronic pain patient - that reducing the pain with medication makes it possible to have empathy towards others. Obviously, I have no neurochemical data to back this up, I'm just saying how it looks like to me, psychologically. If I had to guess, I'd say that being in pain does little good for empathy and it's a memory of being in pain that counts. When I'm in pain I'm not going to care too much about yours, but when I was in pain, and I remember it clearly, I'm going to care a lot.

mmirate3 8y ago

Wow! A psychoactive substance that's actually helpful! (Even though it's clearly not net-helpful due to the serious physiological side-effects.) That's amazing! ... why isn't there more research on isolating this particular side-effect?