3 ms·

I didn't downvote you, but I think whoever did downvote you did it because you missed the important parts of my comment. To summarize, the thief and the person

I didn't downvote you, but I think whoever did downvote you did it because you missed the important parts of my comment. To summarize, the thief and the person with the shotgun "practically live in different worlds" and "bridging the gap between those two worlds would be helpful for both of them" Shooting blanks and chasing someone away doesn't bridge the gap, it widens it. I'd argue that many thieves may come away from that experience NOT thinking "wow, I did a bad thing" but rather thinking "wow, that guy was such a rich asshole who wanted to end my life over A PACKAGE" We don't need thieves thinking that the people they're stealing from deserve it. We need to get thieves to relate and sympathize with the people who they're considering stealing from - maybe thay way, they won't actually steal in the first place! And also, as my comment harped on, we need to take away excuses for thievery. Ensure that people who might turn to theft CAN get a job, and without tooooo much difficulty. Chasing someone away with a gun does not help out with these things.

bb88 8y ago
In this particular case the cops refused to act. And your solution somehow forces the criminals to feel empathy. Not everyone can feel empathy, notably sociopaths. And trying to rationalize with a sociopath about why he should feel empathy, seem problematic from the start. And that girl that stole the package off his porch is more likely to be a sociopath than the average citizen. In states like Texas, it is legal to defend personal property with lethal force. The reason behind this is simple. If you're a rancher defending your cattle and the nearest sheriff is an hour away, the only means of defending your property is with a shotgun. And if you're trying to defend your property and the cops are unable or unwilling to offer their protection, then warning shots with a shotgun seem like the best solution.
- toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
  Not everyone can feel empathy, notably sociopaths. And trying to rationalize with a sociopath about why he should feel empathy, seem problematic from the start. And that girl that stole the package off his porch is more likely to be a sociopath than the average citizen. More likely, but still almost certainly not, although if you’re a fan of shooting people over property crimes it’s not hard to understand why it would help to see everyone as lacking essential human qualities you value.
  - bb88 8y ago
    What part of "warning shots" didn't you understand?
    - toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
      I understood, but I understand a few other things too. Shooting at or near something is not the foolproof activity movies might lead some to believe. It’s also monumentally stupid to bring a gun into play unless you’re willing to use it for its intended purpose. You don’t draw a weapon until you intend to use it, don’t point it at anything you’re not prepared to destroy. Even if you don’t care about accidentally killing someone (including a neighbor you didn’t see for example) it is all too common that people have their weapon taken and used against them. A gun is not a tool to make threats, it’s a tool to kill things. Respect that. The other people who hear the gunshot will, many police officers will, and in the worst case the person you’re seeking to threaten will too and you’ll be another statistic.
- jamescostian 8y ago
  I was born and raised in Texas, I still live in DFW, and I'm aware of the law here. I'm also aware of sociopaths and their symptoms, but I see no correlation between them and thieves. Googling revealed no studies or data on the topic. But I'd argue that most thieves are like most normal human beings, and that their theft happens towards the few people they don't have empathy towards. Just because you don't have empathy for a demographic (my guess: thieves tend to have less empathy for rich people) doesn't mean you're a sociopath, it means you have a prejudice. Everyone has some prejudice whether they like it or not, but we are not all sociopaths. In fact, there are many other symptoms that manifest within sociopaths, and you'll have a tough time showing that most thieves have them as well.
  - bb88 8y ago
    > Googling revealed no studies or data on the topic. Ergo, there must be no articles on the subject, right? I would probably start with this one. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=sociopaths+and+crime+studies&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=sociopaths+and+crime+st... It's not that I don't have empathy for a demographic (sociopaths/psycopaths), it's just they are incapable of feeling empathy, so showing them some will not be an effective deterrent.
    - jamescostian 8y ago
      >> Googling revealed no studies or data on the topic. > Ergo, there must be no articles on the subject, right? Not at all what I said. In fact, my very next sentence was clearly making a guess, and it was just the opposite of your guess (without evidence, all we can do is guess). > I would probably start with this one. [link] That link is to a list of studies, not a single study. Also, they are studies of "crime", which includes things like "arsony" and "homicide", not just "package theft" Those studies are useless to figure out how likely it is for package thieves to be sociopaths. A study on thieves specifically would be better, but if it made no distinction between violent and non-violent thieves it would also be pretty useless. Package thieves are being very non-violent by stealing packages on porches (hoping to not run into anyone) rather than violent thieves that may walk into homes and rob/kill people. > It's not that I don't have empathy for a demographic I didn't say you did, and I'm sorry if you thought I was implying that. I never meant to discuss your empathy. In fact, if you read my comment again, you may notice I'm actually talking about thieves lacking empathy for demographics, and I'm calling that prejudice (not sociopathy/psychopathy). Unless you have a (good, not shitty) study that demonstrates a clear correlation between package thieves (or non-violent thieves in general) and significantly higher chances of them being sociopaths/psychopaths than normal people, your argument is based on conjecture that such a thing is true. By contrast, my argument relies on package thieves having similar chances of sociopaths/psychopaths to people who society doesn't deem as "theieves" - even if package thieves are a little bit more prone to being sociopaths/psychopaths that most people, my argument still holds because wouldn't be so many sociopathic/psychopathic package thieves that helping some would be a bad idea. You'd need there to be a small percentage of non-sociopathic/psychopathic package thieves to show that there is no point in trying to use empathy with most package thieves

bb88 8y ago

In this particular case the cops refused to act. And your solution somehow forces the criminals to feel empathy. Not everyone can feel empathy, notably sociopaths. And trying to rationalize with a sociopath about why he should feel empathy, seem problematic from the start. And that girl that stole the package off his porch is more likely to be a sociopath than the average citizen. In states like Texas, it is legal to defend personal property with lethal force. The reason behind this is simple. If you're a rancher defending your cattle and the nearest sheriff is an hour away, the only means of defending your property is with a shotgun. And if you're trying to defend your property and the cops are unable or unwilling to offer their protection, then warning shots with a shotgun seem like the best solution.

toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
Not everyone can feel empathy, notably sociopaths. And trying to rationalize with a sociopath about why he should feel empathy, seem problematic from the start. And that girl that stole the package off his porch is more likely to be a sociopath than the average citizen. More likely, but still almost certainly not, although if you’re a fan of shooting people over property crimes it’s not hard to understand why it would help to see everyone as lacking essential human qualities you value.
- bb88 8y ago
  What part of "warning shots" didn't you understand?
  - toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
    I understood, but I understand a few other things too. Shooting at or near something is not the foolproof activity movies might lead some to believe. It’s also monumentally stupid to bring a gun into play unless you’re willing to use it for its intended purpose. You don’t draw a weapon until you intend to use it, don’t point it at anything you’re not prepared to destroy. Even if you don’t care about accidentally killing someone (including a neighbor you didn’t see for example) it is all too common that people have their weapon taken and used against them. A gun is not a tool to make threats, it’s a tool to kill things. Respect that. The other people who hear the gunshot will, many police officers will, and in the worst case the person you’re seeking to threaten will too and you’ll be another statistic.
jamescostian 8y ago
I was born and raised in Texas, I still live in DFW, and I'm aware of the law here. I'm also aware of sociopaths and their symptoms, but I see no correlation between them and thieves. Googling revealed no studies or data on the topic. But I'd argue that most thieves are like most normal human beings, and that their theft happens towards the few people they don't have empathy towards. Just because you don't have empathy for a demographic (my guess: thieves tend to have less empathy for rich people) doesn't mean you're a sociopath, it means you have a prejudice. Everyone has some prejudice whether they like it or not, but we are not all sociopaths. In fact, there are many other symptoms that manifest within sociopaths, and you'll have a tough time showing that most thieves have them as well.
- bb88 8y ago
  > Googling revealed no studies or data on the topic. Ergo, there must be no articles on the subject, right? I would probably start with this one. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=sociopaths+and+crime+studies&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=sociopaths+and+crime+st... It's not that I don't have empathy for a demographic (sociopaths/psycopaths), it's just they are incapable of feeling empathy, so showing them some will not be an effective deterrent.
  - jamescostian 8y ago
    >> Googling revealed no studies or data on the topic. > Ergo, there must be no articles on the subject, right? Not at all what I said. In fact, my very next sentence was clearly making a guess, and it was just the opposite of your guess (without evidence, all we can do is guess). > I would probably start with this one. [link] That link is to a list of studies, not a single study. Also, they are studies of "crime", which includes things like "arsony" and "homicide", not just "package theft" Those studies are useless to figure out how likely it is for package thieves to be sociopaths. A study on thieves specifically would be better, but if it made no distinction between violent and non-violent thieves it would also be pretty useless. Package thieves are being very non-violent by stealing packages on porches (hoping to not run into anyone) rather than violent thieves that may walk into homes and rob/kill people. > It's not that I don't have empathy for a demographic I didn't say you did, and I'm sorry if you thought I was implying that. I never meant to discuss your empathy. In fact, if you read my comment again, you may notice I'm actually talking about thieves lacking empathy for demographics, and I'm calling that prejudice (not sociopathy/psychopathy). Unless you have a (good, not shitty) study that demonstrates a clear correlation between package thieves (or non-violent thieves in general) and significantly higher chances of them being sociopaths/psychopaths than normal people, your argument is based on conjecture that such a thing is true. By contrast, my argument relies on package thieves having similar chances of sociopaths/psychopaths to people who society doesn't deem as "theieves" - even if package thieves are a little bit more prone to being sociopaths/psychopaths that most people, my argument still holds because wouldn't be so many sociopathic/psychopathic package thieves that helping some would be a bad idea. You'd need there to be a small percentage of non-sociopathic/psychopathic package thieves to show that there is no point in trying to use empathy with most package thieves