3 ms·

I don't know, I personally find the "I'm selling the CDs because people don't know it's available for free online" a bit unconvincing. He did it in hopes of pro

I don't know, I personally find the "I'm selling the CDs because people don't know it's available for free online" a bit unconvincing. He did it in hopes of profiting [0] by misleading people into thinking they pay for an original. What he sold is freely available online, one search away. Definitely a lot more accessible than buying his discs. This article is heavily biased and fails to present any of the evidence that puts the guy in a bad light. Also [1]: > However, in essence, what Lundgren eventually pleaded guilty to was making these Dell refurbishers’ customers believe that they were obtaining a genuine Dell-branded "Reinstallation Disc" with Dell’s blessing, when in actuality, they weren’t. P.S. I love how the downvotes pour in with no actual dissenting opinion :). Nowhere even in the guy's own emails can anyone find anything but mentions of profit, a ripe market, and basically doing his best to deceive customers by making the product look like a genuine Dell one (arranging for fake Microsoft and Dell labels to be applied to the discs). Nobody goes to such lengths to deceive their customers out of honesty and good intentions. What he did is like recycling paper into freshly printed counterfeit banknotes. Real Robin Hood. > “You would have to be an expert with a magnifying glass to know and/or see such differences.” [2] > “If the software will be 98% accurate I believe I can get away with that.” [2] [0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/27/17293650/microsoft-recycler-jail-sentence-windows-software-counterfeiting-response https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/27/17293650/microsoft-recycl... [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/why-the-man-who-tried-to-sell-windows-recovery-discs-will-go-to-prison/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/why-the-man-who-... [2] https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-facts-about-a-recent-counterfeiting-case-brought-by-the-u-s-government/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-fac...

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
The only way in which they weren't "genuine" is that the plastic they were made from was not blessed by Dell, that's it. The data on them was perfectly genuine, and the data on them could be obtained for free anyway. You might as well argue that downloading the disk image through a third-party ISP is a counterfeit because the ISP is sending you bits labeled as coming from Microsoft on their own medium, and they are even profiting from it!
- close04 8y ago
  So... the only way a fake dollar bill isn't genuine is that the paper it's made from is not blessed by the US government? When you put it like that yes... still very much fake and a crime ;). Like any other counterfeiting. The least he could have done was tell the customers they are "replicas" or whatever. But he'd make less money. Also the guy himself expected the software on that "plastic" to be 98% accurate. Of course, none of the customers ever got to know that. Do you think the end users paid just 25c for them also? ;) Since you have no problem with getting fakes without knowing in advance, how would you feel if the next time your parents give you allowance money they were "98% accurate" fakes?
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
    > So... the only way a fake dollar bill isn't genuine is that the paper it's made from is not blessed by the US government? No, a dollar bill that was not blessed by the FED does not fulfill the one and only function of a currency of being an accounting tool for people's economic contributions to society. A copy of a windows disc is functionally identical to a "genuine" windows disc. > The least he could have done was tell the customers they are "replicas" or whatever. Well, sure he could. But why should he, legal reasons aside? Should ISPs label all websites as "replicas" because you receive a copy made by the ISP? > But he'd make less money. So? Is it ethically wrong to do something that earns you more money? > Also the guy himself expected the software on that "plastic" to be 98% accurate. Source? In particular, what kind of inaccuracies are we talking about? > Since you have no problem with getting fakes without knowing in advance, how would you feel if the next time your parents give you allowance money they were "98% accurate" fakes? I have a problem with getting fakes without knowing in advance. I just don't subscribe to the idea that an identical copy of digital data is a fake.
    - close04 8y ago
      > [basically the whole comment] B.S. > a dollar bill Actually that is not the purpose of money (maybe one of them). But we just agreed that if it's identical (or you know, at least 98% accurate) I can put someone else's "seal of approval" and be totally legit. You can't have it both ways. The seller should be honest about what he's selling. You asking "why?" says a lot. The issue that was described pretty clearly for most people around here isn't the theft of software but the fact that the guy put MS and Dell labels on the physical object (the CD) without any legal right. Oh, if we "just" put the legal reasons aside sure, this is totally legit. Just like every other crime out there ;). > Source? In particular, what kind of inaccuracies are we talking about? Source? Try the links in my comment. It was in the guy's email, presented as evidence in court. Reading before replying helps make your comment a little more relevant. The first things that come to mind is that he used a very outdated image and subpar CD blanks to cut costs. > I just don't subscribe to the idea that an identical copy of digital data is a fake. There are people who don't subscribe to the idea that a woman should be allowed to change her mind during intercourse. There was already an agreement in place. Does this make them right? Back to out topic, the physical CD with fake labels is a fake, as was made very clear in the many official quotes I put in the comment. What if I put a Nike label on my fake a*s home-made shoes and sell them to you for $200? I'm innocent right? The shoes are my own creation and apparently I'm free to use someone else's name as I see fit. Legit. Law aside... The "I reject your reality and substitute my own" argument doesn't make for a good defense argument in court or a good comment.
betterunix2 8y ago
So this is about whether or not Dell gave permission? Oh, heaven forbid that someone do something without the blessing of the big corporations! Why, I hesitate to even mention the name Dell in this very post without first asking them for their permission... The "deceit" here is on the level of "rinse and repeat" instructions on shampoo bottles. The disks contained exactly what customers expected and the "deception" was only in the labeling of the disks. Just because the business seems a bit sleazy does not mean he deserves jail time.
- close04 8y ago
  Sure... everything is ok until you get a fake. Then it's a problem. Next time you buy any brand just think whether you'd be willing to pay that much or at all knowing it's a fake label and the content might be "98% accurate". Software included. Would a person selling you a fake dollar deserve jail time? Do you need more time to think about what you're saying?
  - betterunix2 8y ago
    Except that he was not giving people "fake Windows" or "98% Windows" or anything other than what people were expecting: Windows. It was just that he made a copy without first getting permission. I do not really care if a copy was authorized or not, and I feel no more safe getting authorized copies after seeing things like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit
    - close04 8y ago
      Except he was, according to his own emails he couldn't guarantee "his" product was 100% identical to the original. The second major argument that you miss because nobody was next to you to read it aloud to you so you can catch it is that he went to prison for putting fake labels on a physical CD and claiming that object is an original. Most likely because of using an outdated copy of the software and low quality CD blanks (and manufacturing process) to cut costs. Whether you feel safe or not is not the point. At least one person bought that CD at a price (NOT 25c) assuming it was original, "guaranteed" by Dell, and would not have paid the price knowing it's just a fake from a guy in his basement so to speak. And if he wanted to "extend the life of electronics" he would have just given people direct links to the free downloads. But he didn't, he wanted to make money by breaking the law. I'm disturbed that this is so hard to understand for some people. I can only assume none of you have ever achieved something worth using or stealing which is why it's hard to comprehend why someone stealing your name to put on their stolen copy is not cool.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago

The only way in which they weren't "genuine" is that the plastic they were made from was not blessed by Dell, that's it. The data on them was perfectly genuine, and the data on them could be obtained for free anyway. You might as well argue that downloading the disk image through a third-party ISP is a counterfeit because the ISP is sending you bits labeled as coming from Microsoft on their own medium, and they are even profiting from it!

close04 8y ago
So... the only way a fake dollar bill isn't genuine is that the paper it's made from is not blessed by the US government? When you put it like that yes... still very much fake and a crime ;). Like any other counterfeiting. The least he could have done was tell the customers they are "replicas" or whatever. But he'd make less money. Also the guy himself expected the software on that "plastic" to be 98% accurate. Of course, none of the customers ever got to know that. Do you think the end users paid just 25c for them also? ;) Since you have no problem with getting fakes without knowing in advance, how would you feel if the next time your parents give you allowance money they were "98% accurate" fakes?
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 8y ago
  > So... the only way a fake dollar bill isn't genuine is that the paper it's made from is not blessed by the US government? No, a dollar bill that was not blessed by the FED does not fulfill the one and only function of a currency of being an accounting tool for people's economic contributions to society. A copy of a windows disc is functionally identical to a "genuine" windows disc. > The least he could have done was tell the customers they are "replicas" or whatever. Well, sure he could. But why should he, legal reasons aside? Should ISPs label all websites as "replicas" because you receive a copy made by the ISP? > But he'd make less money. So? Is it ethically wrong to do something that earns you more money? > Also the guy himself expected the software on that "plastic" to be 98% accurate. Source? In particular, what kind of inaccuracies are we talking about? > Since you have no problem with getting fakes without knowing in advance, how would you feel if the next time your parents give you allowance money they were "98% accurate" fakes? I have a problem with getting fakes without knowing in advance. I just don't subscribe to the idea that an identical copy of digital data is a fake.
  - close04 8y ago
    > [basically the whole comment] B.S. > a dollar bill Actually that is not the purpose of money (maybe one of them). But we just agreed that if it's identical (or you know, at least 98% accurate) I can put someone else's "seal of approval" and be totally legit. You can't have it both ways. The seller should be honest about what he's selling. You asking "why?" says a lot. The issue that was described pretty clearly for most people around here isn't the theft of software but the fact that the guy put MS and Dell labels on the physical object (the CD) without any legal right. Oh, if we "just" put the legal reasons aside sure, this is totally legit. Just like every other crime out there ;). > Source? In particular, what kind of inaccuracies are we talking about? Source? Try the links in my comment. It was in the guy's email, presented as evidence in court. Reading before replying helps make your comment a little more relevant. The first things that come to mind is that he used a very outdated image and subpar CD blanks to cut costs. > I just don't subscribe to the idea that an identical copy of digital data is a fake. There are people who don't subscribe to the idea that a woman should be allowed to change her mind during intercourse. There was already an agreement in place. Does this make them right? Back to out topic, the physical CD with fake labels is a fake, as was made very clear in the many official quotes I put in the comment. What if I put a Nike label on my fake a*s home-made shoes and sell them to you for $200? I'm innocent right? The shoes are my own creation and apparently I'm free to use someone else's name as I see fit. Legit. Law aside... The "I reject your reality and substitute my own" argument doesn't make for a good defense argument in court or a good comment.

betterunix2 8y ago

So this is about whether or not Dell gave permission? Oh, heaven forbid that someone do something without the blessing of the big corporations! Why, I hesitate to even mention the name Dell in this very post without first asking them for their permission... The "deceit" here is on the level of "rinse and repeat" instructions on shampoo bottles. The disks contained exactly what customers expected and the "deception" was only in the labeling of the disks. Just because the business seems a bit sleazy does not mean he deserves jail time.

close04 8y ago
Sure... everything is ok until you get a fake. Then it's a problem. Next time you buy any brand just think whether you'd be willing to pay that much or at all knowing it's a fake label and the content might be "98% accurate". Software included. Would a person selling you a fake dollar deserve jail time? Do you need more time to think about what you're saying?
- betterunix2 8y ago
  Except that he was not giving people "fake Windows" or "98% Windows" or anything other than what people were expecting: Windows. It was just that he made a copy without first getting permission. I do not really care if a copy was authorized or not, and I feel no more safe getting authorized copies after seeing things like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit
  - close04 8y ago
    Except he was, according to his own emails he couldn't guarantee "his" product was 100% identical to the original. The second major argument that you miss because nobody was next to you to read it aloud to you so you can catch it is that he went to prison for putting fake labels on a physical CD and claiming that object is an original. Most likely because of using an outdated copy of the software and low quality CD blanks (and manufacturing process) to cut costs. Whether you feel safe or not is not the point. At least one person bought that CD at a price (NOT 25c) assuming it was original, "guaranteed" by Dell, and would not have paid the price knowing it's just a fake from a guy in his basement so to speak. And if he wanted to "extend the life of electronics" he would have just given people direct links to the free downloads. But he didn't, he wanted to make money by breaking the law. I'm disturbed that this is so hard to understand for some people. I can only assume none of you have ever achieved something worth using or stealing which is why it's hard to comprehend why someone stealing your name to put on their stolen copy is not cool.