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What I miss from this article is what he does know. Not to boats, but to contrast. I know some of the things he does not know, and I'm sure he knows things I do

What I miss from this article is what he does know. Not to boats, but to contrast. I know some of the things he does not know, and I'm sure he knows things I don't know. But without knowing what his expertise is, it's easy to think you know more than him.

Kiro 8y ago
He's one of the most prominent React core developers. The author of Redux etc. Many JavaScript and React developers (myself included) consider him a rockstar.
- yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
  You don’t think that’s a problem? I don’t think there’s any value in being a name in programming. There is certainly value in a dollar sense (to their own career prospects at least), but I don’t understand why people would be like “wow! It’s $name! They’re famous!” If someone non-junior knew no shell scripting and had no FP knowledge — or thought that JavaScript counts as FP [spoiler alert: it doesn’t] — I wouldn’t hire them.
  - danabramov 8y ago
    Personally I’m not saying JavaScript “counts” as FP — which is why the post says “unless _you_ count”. ;-) But there are certainly FP subcultures in the JS community which only use the functional subset: https://github.com/jfmengels/eslint-plugin-fp https://github.com/jfmengels/eslint-plugin-fp https://github.com/fantasyland/fantasy-land https://github.com/fantasyland/fantasy-land https://ramdajs.com/ https://ramdajs.com/ That subculture is what I was referring to. If you’re splitting hairs over such definitions without acknowledging the cultural aspect and use that as a hiring criteria I wouldn’t want to work with you either.
    - yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
      Culture means different things to different people. If a candidate were to suggest they were only interested in the “pragmatic parts of FP”, implying that developing an understanding of category theory is somehow frivolous and not pragmatic (which I think you did earlier), I would acknowledge this as a poor culture fit.
      - mlevental 8y ago
        you're arguing with the guy that built redux and he's being nice about it. you think maybe you should reconsider your position?
        yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
        I’m well aware of who I am addressing. It seems you’re implying we should make special allowances for people depending on how popular they are. My entire point is that I won’t take someone at their name; I completely reject the idea of the “celebrity” programmer. Redux is pretty neat; IIRC it was a state store influenced by Elm and implemented in about 50 lines of JavaScript. But there are plenty of developers — even popular open-source contributors — who don’t have the same anti-intellectual position of rejecting CT because it isn’t “pragmatic”.
        mlevental 8y ago
        my point is exactly not how popular he is but how accomplished he is and how condescending he could be (since he is so popular and accomplished) and how gracious he is being to you. it's like those movies where someone is starting a fight (giving cause) with a person 10x their size and then the bigger person gracefully declining to batter - it should make you reconsider who's the protagonist...
        yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
        So yes, you are exactly giving special treatment to someone you perceive to be of greater merit owing to their popularity. Your position is that I should not argue against Dan Abramov because you perceive him to be relatively accomplished. This is an embarrassing point of view. Burn your idols.
Vinnl 8y ago
I think the assumed background for the reader is knowing who Dan Abramov is - he's the guy who started Redux, and is currently on the React team. The rest of his blog so far is basically about things he does know.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  In the spirit of this page: I don't have a clue what Redux or React are.
  - gbear605 8y ago
    React is an extremely popular web front end library developed primarily by Facebook. Redux is an important library commonly used with React.
    - yesenadam 8y ago
      Thank you!
alexdowad 8y ago
This. Never heard of Dan before today. Now he is "a guy on the Internet who writes about programming but doesn't know much about it".
- douglaswlance 8y ago
  He invented Redux, and is a core contributor to React.
  - irq11 8y ago
    Honestly, hearing that a core contributor to React doesn’t know much of anything about basic engineering topics is disheartening, not encouraging. Not memorizing the algorithm book is one thing, but being considered a “rockstar” when you don’t know basic sorting algorithms...
    - sircastor 8y ago
      Being a rockstar is more often a matter of being able to work in your field effectively and efficiently. He's not a savant, and he's not working in a space where knowing sorting algorithms is meaningful to his day to day activity. He's still great at how job and the space he works in, and not knowing these things doesn't heavily affect that
      - irq11 8y ago
        That’s mostly just an indictment of the Javascript space, not a defense of lacking fundamental knowledge. I don’t routinely write sorting algorithms either, but I know what they are, how they differ, and how to implement them. And it’s useful knowledge - it comes up often in lots of domains. I see lots of comments about how this is a bold stance against “imposter syndrome”, but at some point, it isn’t a syndrome. There really is basic knowledge that defines professional competence in this field, and it can’t be replaced by github stars.
    - rpeden 8y ago
      Consider that actual rock stars often aren't the world's best musicians from a purely technical perspective - but they're experts at delivering what their audience wants. Dan made a bit of a name for himself in a couple of ways I can think of: creating a very popular library (Redux) and communicating extremely well in English about React and Redux. "Able to communicate about with a broad audience about complex technical topics" is a skill I wish more developers had. So he's able to create things his audience wants and then communicate to his audience about those things. Sounds exactly like a rock star to me. That's meant as a compliment, not an insult. The ability to communicate well and the ability to be honest about you don't know are two things the developer community needs more of.

Kiro 8y ago

He's one of the most prominent React core developers. The author of Redux etc. Many JavaScript and React developers (myself included) consider him a rockstar.

yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
You don’t think that’s a problem? I don’t think there’s any value in being a name in programming. There is certainly value in a dollar sense (to their own career prospects at least), but I don’t understand why people would be like “wow! It’s $name! They’re famous!” If someone non-junior knew no shell scripting and had no FP knowledge — or thought that JavaScript counts as FP [spoiler alert: it doesn’t] — I wouldn’t hire them.
- danabramov 8y ago
  Personally I’m not saying JavaScript “counts” as FP — which is why the post says “unless _you_ count”. ;-) But there are certainly FP subcultures in the JS community which only use the functional subset: https://github.com/jfmengels/eslint-plugin-fp https://github.com/jfmengels/eslint-plugin-fp https://github.com/fantasyland/fantasy-land https://github.com/fantasyland/fantasy-land https://ramdajs.com/ https://ramdajs.com/ That subculture is what I was referring to. If you’re splitting hairs over such definitions without acknowledging the cultural aspect and use that as a hiring criteria I wouldn’t want to work with you either.
  - yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
    Culture means different things to different people. If a candidate were to suggest they were only interested in the “pragmatic parts of FP”, implying that developing an understanding of category theory is somehow frivolous and not pragmatic (which I think you did earlier), I would acknowledge this as a poor culture fit.
    - mlevental 8y ago
      you're arguing with the guy that built redux and he's being nice about it. you think maybe you should reconsider your position?
      - yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
        I’m well aware of who I am addressing. It seems you’re implying we should make special allowances for people depending on how popular they are. My entire point is that I won’t take someone at their name; I completely reject the idea of the “celebrity” programmer. Redux is pretty neat; IIRC it was a state store influenced by Elm and implemented in about 50 lines of JavaScript. But there are plenty of developers — even popular open-source contributors — who don’t have the same anti-intellectual position of rejecting CT because it isn’t “pragmatic”.
        mlevental 8y ago
        my point is exactly not how popular he is but how accomplished he is and how condescending he could be (since he is so popular and accomplished) and how gracious he is being to you. it's like those movies where someone is starting a fight (giving cause) with a person 10x their size and then the bigger person gracefully declining to batter - it should make you reconsider who's the protagonist...
        yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
        So yes, you are exactly giving special treatment to someone you perceive to be of greater merit owing to their popularity. Your position is that I should not argue against Dan Abramov because you perceive him to be relatively accomplished. This is an embarrassing point of view. Burn your idols.

Vinnl 8y ago

I think the assumed background for the reader is knowing who Dan Abramov is - he's the guy who started Redux, and is currently on the React team. The rest of his blog so far is basically about things he does know.

yesenadam 8y ago
In the spirit of this page: I don't have a clue what Redux or React are.
- gbear605 8y ago
  React is an extremely popular web front end library developed primarily by Facebook. Redux is an important library commonly used with React.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Thank you!

alexdowad 8y ago

This. Never heard of Dan before today. Now he is "a guy on the Internet who writes about programming but doesn't know much about it".

douglaswlance 8y ago
He invented Redux, and is a core contributor to React.
- irq11 8y ago
  Honestly, hearing that a core contributor to React doesn’t know much of anything about basic engineering topics is disheartening, not encouraging. Not memorizing the algorithm book is one thing, but being considered a “rockstar” when you don’t know basic sorting algorithms...
  - sircastor 8y ago
    Being a rockstar is more often a matter of being able to work in your field effectively and efficiently. He's not a savant, and he's not working in a space where knowing sorting algorithms is meaningful to his day to day activity. He's still great at how job and the space he works in, and not knowing these things doesn't heavily affect that
    - irq11 8y ago
      That’s mostly just an indictment of the Javascript space, not a defense of lacking fundamental knowledge. I don’t routinely write sorting algorithms either, but I know what they are, how they differ, and how to implement them. And it’s useful knowledge - it comes up often in lots of domains. I see lots of comments about how this is a bold stance against “imposter syndrome”, but at some point, it isn’t a syndrome. There really is basic knowledge that defines professional competence in this field, and it can’t be replaced by github stars.
  - rpeden 8y ago
    Consider that actual rock stars often aren't the world's best musicians from a purely technical perspective - but they're experts at delivering what their audience wants. Dan made a bit of a name for himself in a couple of ways I can think of: creating a very popular library (Redux) and communicating extremely well in English about React and Redux. "Able to communicate about with a broad audience about complex technical topics" is a skill I wish more developers had. So he's able to create things his audience wants and then communicate to his audience about those things. Sounds exactly like a rock star to me. That's meant as a compliment, not an insult. The ability to communicate well and the ability to be honest about you don't know are two things the developer community needs more of.