6 ms·

I don't know anything about the person who wrote this, but I know almost everything they don't know. Am I a much better programmer/engineer than I thought?

kojeovo 8y ago
You're either way more knowledgable than most, or there's a bit of Dunning-Kruger in play. Hard to tell. What you know is only a small part of the game anyways.
- throw20180103 8y ago
  To be honest, this article scares me from using react/redux, because the author don't know how types works. (I can't be the only one)
  - acemarke 8y ago
    Dan previously used C#, so he knows what static types are. He just said he hasn't used _TypeScript_ specifically. Redux is a simple library that you can read through in a few minutes. It's working great for hundreds of thousands of users. Why would Dan's background scare you off from using it? As for React, there's more than just Dan on the React team. (In particular, Seb Markbage is an incredibly deep thinker, and the rest of the team is great too).
    - throw20180103 8y ago
      "and I already forgot most of C#" Does not inspire confidence here. It scares me off for the same reason that hundreds of thousands of people use dynamic languages, and I still believe that this is far from being a good idea. The same way that hundreds of millions of people believe in god, and I still think this is absurd.
      - zbentley 8y ago
        > It scares me off for the same reason that hundreds of thousands of people use dynamic languages, and I still believe that this is far from being a good idea. > The same way that hundreds of millions of people believe in god, and I still think this is absurd. Well, that takes the idea of a 'programming language holy war' to a very literal place.
      - acemarke 8y ago
        Forgetting the details of a specific language syntax is _not_ the same thing as "not knowing how types work".
      - rmrfrmrf 8y ago
        Yeah, I mean I see this article as a not-so-subtle middle finger to computer science elitists, so I don't think backlash was unexpected (on the contrary, welcomed). React itself represents a shift in webdev thought where, instead of desperately trying to establish itself as a "respectable" programming field (see: any Google web technology), it instead focuses on being as accessible as possible and embraces the populist nature of the web. This article is just an extension of that ideology. And, as you've indicated, anyone who would be horrified by that ideology probably is already horrified by the web to begin with.
      - christophilus 8y ago
        Meh. I wrote C# for 13 years of my career, starting with .NET 1.0. I worked at Microsoft, writing C# services, I worked for consultancies writing C# servers, clients, and web apps. I’ve been doing full time JS with some Ruby for the past 5 years. I doubt I could write anything more than “Hello world” in C# without a lot of Googling.
        throw20180103 8y ago
        "I understand the concept of types and can read annotations but I’ve never written it. The few times I tried, I ran into difficulties." I know it's part of the "typescript" section. But it honestly sounds like it is quite general. I looked his github, and his only C# experience seems to be a tictactoe made in 2014.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    I will admit I am a terrible programmer, but I will say using Redux scared me away from using React at first. Maybe my React needs are minimal, but I tried following a tutorial using React and Redux and I was immensely confused. Once I struck out on my own and ditched Redux for just straight React, everything became so much clearer and simpler.
    - acemarke 8y ago
      Hi, I'm a Redux maintainer. Anything specific that confused you? Which tutorials were you looking at? We're currently planning a revamp of the Redux docs. I'd really appreciate any feedback on what things caused problems, so we can know how to make the docs better. Feel free to comment here, or ping me on Twitter or in the Reactiflux chat channels. I've also got a survey open asking for suggestions on docs structuring: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfzIkY3fXZ8PrQKScYMK0YoEgALfAK2qQ0mOj1_ibKv2qDTuQ/viewform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfzIkY3fXZ8PrQKScYM... Also, fwiw, you may be interested in my suggested resources for learning Redux: https://blog.isquaredsoftware.com/2017/12/blogged-answers-learn-redux/ https://blog.isquaredsoftware.com/2017/12/blogged-answers-le...
      - freehunter 8y ago
        It wasn't the Redux docs, it was the entire mindframe of Redux. This connects to that which connects to that and sets this while this gets that. Like I said, I'm a terrible programmer and I have a hard time keeping complex interactions in my mind. If this block of code needs to change a variable, I want it to just change the variable right there and move on. Having to write the code that needs to change the variable, then switching to another file to write the code that actually changes the variable, then switching to another file to write the code that returns that new variable to my original function is just... so damn unnecessary. There's just too many moving parts that can (and do) break. It's so complex, and when something doesn't work I struggle to debug why. I will admit I did not choose to use Redux, it was part of a tutorial I was following on Udemy. I never got the hang of it, and once I figured out React Native well enough, I quickly scaled back my reliance on Redux. It's made my life a lot easier. My day job is a technical consultant for a major tech company, and we have meetings to discuss the meeting we're going to have before the meeting. The administrative overhead of Redux reminds me of that in a very bad way. Instead of my Facebook login button calling auth_actions.js which then returns the auth token to auth_reducer.js which then returns the auth token to auth_screen.js (but don't forget to add it to the combineReducers in index.js), I just put the authentication code in 'await doAuth()' inside of the auth_screen.js file. I've never heard a convincing reason as to why I shouldn't do that, even though the tutorial I followed said it's a bad idea.
  - wawhal 8y ago
    A software should be judged only based on how functional and performant it is. Judging a software based on the author’s biodata is firstly, not fair and secondly, too presumptuous.
josephpmay 8y ago
He's one of the main developers of React, and created Redux and Create React https://github.com/gaearon https://github.com/gaearon
dangero 8y ago
I’ve been programming for almost 30 years, know most of the things on his list, but a few years ago I got an email from a guy interested in one of my apps and he told me about the apps he built and how much money he was making. He had nearly zero programming experience or skill, but his apps were more successful than mine. My point is that knowing 20 different programming languages did not make me more successful or better. This guy kind of sort of knew one language and was crushing me in sales. On an unrelated note, I knew a guy that knew every new tool and language under the sun. Was always learning the latest thing. Terrible engineer —- everything too complicated and abstracted. Hard to follow, hard to work with. I don’t believe knowing more necissarily makes for a better enginner at all.
commandlinefan 8y ago
LOL I didn’t want to be the first person to say that, so I’m glad you said it. In the spirit of charity, though, I’m sure that his list of the things that he does know overlaps my list of things I don’t know.

kojeovo 8y ago

You're either way more knowledgable than most, or there's a bit of Dunning-Kruger in play. Hard to tell. What you know is only a small part of the game anyways.

throw20180103 8y ago
To be honest, this article scares me from using react/redux, because the author don't know how types works. (I can't be the only one)
- acemarke 8y ago
  Dan previously used C#, so he knows what static types are. He just said he hasn't used _TypeScript_ specifically. Redux is a simple library that you can read through in a few minutes. It's working great for hundreds of thousands of users. Why would Dan's background scare you off from using it? As for React, there's more than just Dan on the React team. (In particular, Seb Markbage is an incredibly deep thinker, and the rest of the team is great too).
  - throw20180103 8y ago
    "and I already forgot most of C#" Does not inspire confidence here. It scares me off for the same reason that hundreds of thousands of people use dynamic languages, and I still believe that this is far from being a good idea. The same way that hundreds of millions of people believe in god, and I still think this is absurd.
    - zbentley 8y ago
      > It scares me off for the same reason that hundreds of thousands of people use dynamic languages, and I still believe that this is far from being a good idea. > The same way that hundreds of millions of people believe in god, and I still think this is absurd. Well, that takes the idea of a 'programming language holy war' to a very literal place.
    - acemarke 8y ago
      Forgetting the details of a specific language syntax is _not_ the same thing as "not knowing how types work".
    - rmrfrmrf 8y ago
      Yeah, I mean I see this article as a not-so-subtle middle finger to computer science elitists, so I don't think backlash was unexpected (on the contrary, welcomed). React itself represents a shift in webdev thought where, instead of desperately trying to establish itself as a "respectable" programming field (see: any Google web technology), it instead focuses on being as accessible as possible and embraces the populist nature of the web. This article is just an extension of that ideology. And, as you've indicated, anyone who would be horrified by that ideology probably is already horrified by the web to begin with.
    - christophilus 8y ago
      Meh. I wrote C# for 13 years of my career, starting with .NET 1.0. I worked at Microsoft, writing C# services, I worked for consultancies writing C# servers, clients, and web apps. I’ve been doing full time JS with some Ruby for the past 5 years. I doubt I could write anything more than “Hello world” in C# without a lot of Googling.
      - throw20180103 8y ago
        "I understand the concept of types and can read annotations but I’ve never written it. The few times I tried, I ran into difficulties." I know it's part of the "typescript" section. But it honestly sounds like it is quite general. I looked his github, and his only C# experience seems to be a tictactoe made in 2014.
- freehunter 8y ago
  I will admit I am a terrible programmer, but I will say using Redux scared me away from using React at first. Maybe my React needs are minimal, but I tried following a tutorial using React and Redux and I was immensely confused. Once I struck out on my own and ditched Redux for just straight React, everything became so much clearer and simpler.
  - acemarke 8y ago
    Hi, I'm a Redux maintainer. Anything specific that confused you? Which tutorials were you looking at? We're currently planning a revamp of the Redux docs. I'd really appreciate any feedback on what things caused problems, so we can know how to make the docs better. Feel free to comment here, or ping me on Twitter or in the Reactiflux chat channels. I've also got a survey open asking for suggestions on docs structuring: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfzIkY3fXZ8PrQKScYMK0YoEgALfAK2qQ0mOj1_ibKv2qDTuQ/viewform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfzIkY3fXZ8PrQKScYM... Also, fwiw, you may be interested in my suggested resources for learning Redux: https://blog.isquaredsoftware.com/2017/12/blogged-answers-learn-redux/ https://blog.isquaredsoftware.com/2017/12/blogged-answers-le...
    - freehunter 8y ago
      It wasn't the Redux docs, it was the entire mindframe of Redux. This connects to that which connects to that and sets this while this gets that. Like I said, I'm a terrible programmer and I have a hard time keeping complex interactions in my mind. If this block of code needs to change a variable, I want it to just change the variable right there and move on. Having to write the code that needs to change the variable, then switching to another file to write the code that actually changes the variable, then switching to another file to write the code that returns that new variable to my original function is just... so damn unnecessary. There's just too many moving parts that can (and do) break. It's so complex, and when something doesn't work I struggle to debug why. I will admit I did not choose to use Redux, it was part of a tutorial I was following on Udemy. I never got the hang of it, and once I figured out React Native well enough, I quickly scaled back my reliance on Redux. It's made my life a lot easier. My day job is a technical consultant for a major tech company, and we have meetings to discuss the meeting we're going to have before the meeting. The administrative overhead of Redux reminds me of that in a very bad way. Instead of my Facebook login button calling auth_actions.js which then returns the auth token to auth_reducer.js which then returns the auth token to auth_screen.js (but don't forget to add it to the combineReducers in index.js), I just put the authentication code in 'await doAuth()' inside of the auth_screen.js file. I've never heard a convincing reason as to why I shouldn't do that, even though the tutorial I followed said it's a bad idea.
- wawhal 8y ago
  A software should be judged only based on how functional and performant it is. Judging a software based on the author’s biodata is firstly, not fair and secondly, too presumptuous.

josephpmay 8y ago

He's one of the main developers of React, and created Redux and Create React https://github.com/gaearon https://github.com/gaearon

dangero 8y ago

I’ve been programming for almost 30 years, know most of the things on his list, but a few years ago I got an email from a guy interested in one of my apps and he told me about the apps he built and how much money he was making. He had nearly zero programming experience or skill, but his apps were more successful than mine. My point is that knowing 20 different programming languages did not make me more successful or better. This guy kind of sort of knew one language and was crushing me in sales. On an unrelated note, I knew a guy that knew every new tool and language under the sun. Was always learning the latest thing. Terrible engineer —- everything too complicated and abstracted. Hard to follow, hard to work with. I don’t believe knowing more necissarily makes for a better enginner at all.

commandlinefan 8y ago

LOL I didn’t want to be the first person to say that, so I’m glad you said it. In the spirit of charity, though, I’m sure that his list of the things that he does know overlaps my list of things I don’t know.