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Example of a more general problem: developers not understanding the business domain. Developers often blame “poor requirements” for schedule and budget overruns

Example of a more general problem: developers not understanding the business domain. Developers often blame “poor requirements” for schedule and budget overruns, but they didn’t spend any time learning the business domain.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
magicalhippo 8y ago
At work we make a program which essentially makes and sends electronic declarations, which fall under government rules and regulations. I had zero domain knowledge when I joined. However the majority of our support team were hired from our customers, and they know the domain very well. We include them when we need to implement new rule changes and other features, to make sure we don't miss things. After a few years of working here I of course have a lot more domain knowledge, but it's always helpful to be able to quickly run some questions past someone who knows the domain well should I happen to get some doubt in the middle of coding.
commandlinefan 8y ago
> they didn’t spend any time learning the business domain Weren’t given any time to learn it. FTFY.
hyperman1 8y ago
If you do learn the business, you have to explain to management why you wasted all that time. You cant say your application is cheaper in user errors, downtime, maintenance, licences, change requests etc... as that would mean all the other expensive software is garbage.
- gregjor 8y ago
  Domain expertise is not wasted time. It makes the difference between a useful application and a pile of code. Developers should not assume they know more about a business domain than the people working in it.
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    Isn’t that the job of a product manager, though? To figure out what the product should actually do?
    - justapassenger 8y ago
      To be a true engineer, one should use technology to solve problems. PMs are suppose to help with that, but to be called an engineer, one should have that mindset. Otherwise, we're just code-monkeys.
      - gregjor 8y ago
        Yes, but someone has to make sure engineers solve the right problem in a way useful to end users.
    - gregjor 8y ago
      Ideally. When I started as a programmer companies had business analysts who had domain expertise and made sure software mapped to the domain and actual users. Now we have PMs, usually glorified project managers, too often with little or no domain expertise or technical understanding. I freelance so I don’t have PMs or analysts, I have to learn the domain and deal with the management/client/users directly.
    - daleco 8y ago
      That's also be the job of the UX/Product Designer to learn about the users and business domain.
    - Barrin92 8y ago
      tacit knowledge especially in an hands-on field like medicine where patients are involved cannot be conveyed by a manager with a power point presentation. This compartmentalisation in the name of efficiency is actively harmful. Developers should get out more and get first hand experience of the environments they develop software for.
      - 8y ago
- EpicEng 8y ago
  I have yet to work for a company that doesn't value time spent learning the domain. I'm not impkying these places don't exist, but your comment enters the realm of trope (e.g. all managers are spiky haired, know nothing MBA's). If you work in a place like that, I'm sorry, that sucks.
  - gregjor 8y ago
    A lot of startups work this way. A group of people with technical talent but little domain expertise. And they tend to see every problem as a technical problem.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

magicalhippo 8y ago

At work we make a program which essentially makes and sends electronic declarations, which fall under government rules and regulations. I had zero domain knowledge when I joined. However the majority of our support team were hired from our customers, and they know the domain very well. We include them when we need to implement new rule changes and other features, to make sure we don't miss things. After a few years of working here I of course have a lot more domain knowledge, but it's always helpful to be able to quickly run some questions past someone who knows the domain well should I happen to get some doubt in the middle of coding.

commandlinefan 8y ago

> they didn’t spend any time learning the business domain Weren’t given any time to learn it. FTFY.

hyperman1 8y ago

If you do learn the business, you have to explain to management why you wasted all that time. You cant say your application is cheaper in user errors, downtime, maintenance, licences, change requests etc... as that would mean all the other expensive software is garbage.

gregjor 8y ago
Domain expertise is not wasted time. It makes the difference between a useful application and a pile of code. Developers should not assume they know more about a business domain than the people working in it.
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  Isn’t that the job of a product manager, though? To figure out what the product should actually do?
  - justapassenger 8y ago
    To be a true engineer, one should use technology to solve problems. PMs are suppose to help with that, but to be called an engineer, one should have that mindset. Otherwise, we're just code-monkeys.
    - gregjor 8y ago
      Yes, but someone has to make sure engineers solve the right problem in a way useful to end users.
  - gregjor 8y ago
    Ideally. When I started as a programmer companies had business analysts who had domain expertise and made sure software mapped to the domain and actual users. Now we have PMs, usually glorified project managers, too often with little or no domain expertise or technical understanding. I freelance so I don’t have PMs or analysts, I have to learn the domain and deal with the management/client/users directly.
  - daleco 8y ago
    That's also be the job of the UX/Product Designer to learn about the users and business domain.
  - Barrin92 8y ago
    tacit knowledge especially in an hands-on field like medicine where patients are involved cannot be conveyed by a manager with a power point presentation. This compartmentalisation in the name of efficiency is actively harmful. Developers should get out more and get first hand experience of the environments they develop software for.
    - 8y ago
EpicEng 8y ago
I have yet to work for a company that doesn't value time spent learning the domain. I'm not impkying these places don't exist, but your comment enters the realm of trope (e.g. all managers are spiky haired, know nothing MBA's). If you work in a place like that, I'm sorry, that sucks.
- gregjor 8y ago
  A lot of startups work this way. A group of people with technical talent but little domain expertise. And they tend to see every problem as a technical problem.